MATCHWATCH : Wigan Athletic (a) sponsored by Nicky Forster

[Snowflake Royal]

Bacuna was rested. He'll be back on Tuesday in place of the hopeless Swift. I respect your argument but I'm generally interested of your hate for Bacuna, IMO he's not great but he's the best of a bad bunch, we lacked any goal threat without him today

I don't like Bacuna because he should be excellent and yet I've almost never seen him play well in midfield. Even the game he won for us against Bristol I thought he was our worst midfielder first half. He's just so casual and unnecessarily wasteful for a player of obvious talent.

Give me Ezatolahi or Kelly over him any day. Rinomhota remains to be seen. But I'll always prefer an Academy lad to a disappointment like Bacuna.

But if being dropped pulls his finger out and he ups his game again, then so much the better.

Also, LOL at resting a player after an International break.

He tries to tackle,

The rest of them don’t.

An objective claim easily verified.

Name - attempted tackles per game / successful tackles per game / % successful
Ezatolahi - 3 / 2.3 / 77
Meyler - 4.2 / 2.2 / 52
Kelly - 2.8 / 1.9 / 68
Bacuna - 1.8 / 1.2 / 67
Swift - 1.8 / 1 / 56
Rinomhota - 1.6 / 1.6 / 100

Right as always Leon.

Oops.

Source: whoscored.com

[leon]

I don't like Bacuna because he should be excellent and yet I've almost never seen him play well in midfield. Even the game he won for us against Bristol I thought he was our worst midfielder first half. He's just so casual and unnecessarily wasteful for a player of obvious talent.

Give me Ezatolahi or Kelly over him any day. Rinomhota remains to be seen. But I'll always prefer an Academy lad to a disappointment like Bacuna.

But if being dropped pulls his finger out and he ups his game again, then so much the better.

Also, LOL at resting a player after an International break.

He tries to tackle,

The rest of them don’t.

An objective claim easily verified.

Name - attempted tackles per game / successful tackles per game / % successful
Ezatolahi - 3 / 2.3 / 77
Meyler - 4.2 / 2.2 / 52
Kelly - 2.8 / 1.9 / 68
Bacuna - 1.8 / 1.2 / 67
Swift - 1.8 / 1 / 56
Rinomhota - 1.6 / 1.6 / 100

Right as always Leon.

Oops.

Source: whoscored.com

Interesting. Possibly.

What do these stats tell you about our midfield?

And try and keep it civilised Ian, as if I was standing next to you.

[Snowflake Royal]

He tries to tackle,

The rest of them don’t.

An objective claim easily verified.

Name - attempted tackles per game / successful tackles per game / % successful
Ezatolahi - 3 / 2.3 / 77
Meyler - 4.2 / 2.2 / 52
Kelly - 2.8 / 1.9 / 68
Bacuna - 1.8 / 1.2 / 67
Swift - 1.8 / 1 / 56
Rinomhota - 1.6 / 1.6 / 100

Right as always Leon.

Oops.

Source: whoscored.com

Interesting. Possibly.

What do these stats tell you about our midfield?

And try and keep it civilised Ian, as if I was standing next to you.

They tell me you're not a very good judge of what our midfielders do. They tell me that Ezatolahi, Rinomhota and Kelly are better at tackling than Bacuna, although Rinomhota's sample size is a little small and he could maybe do with attempting a few more.

Although tackles are far from the be all and end all of midfield defensive work, but then you only mentioned tackling so that was all that was relevant.

They help reinforce what my own eyes have told me. Kelly gets an unfair press on defending and Bacuna is overrated.

And of course no comparison is fair without looking at other clubs.

David Meyler is in the top 20 for attempted and successful tackles of midfielders with 5 or more appearances.

Kelly is 37th for attempted and 40 somethingth for successful... whilst Norwood, who you recently dismissed if I recall correctly was 16th and 20 somethingth respectively. That's from a total of 72 players.

Ezatolahi doesn't have enough starts to qualify.

[leon]

An objective claim easily verified.

Name - attempted tackles per game / successful tackles per game / % successful
Ezatolahi - 3 / 2.3 / 77
Meyler - 4.2 / 2.2 / 52
Kelly - 2.8 / 1.9 / 68
Bacuna - 1.8 / 1.2 / 67
Swift - 1.8 / 1 / 56
Rinomhota - 1.6 / 1.6 / 100

Right as always Leon.

Oops.

Source: whoscored.com

Interesting. Possibly.

What do these stats tell you about our midfield?

And try and keep it civilised Ian, as if I was standing next to you.

They tell me you're not a very good judge of what our midfielders do. They tell me that Ezatolahi, Rinomhota and Kelly are better at tackling than Bacuna, although Rinomhota's sample size is a little small and he could maybe do with attempting a few more.

Although tackles are far from the be all and end all of midfield defensive work, but then you only mentioned tackling so that was all that was relevant.

They help reinforce what my own eyes have told me. Kelly gets an unfair press on defending and Bacuna is overrated.

And of course no comparison is fair without looking at other clubs.

David Meyler is in the top 20 for attempted and successful tackles of midfielders with 5 or more appearances.

Kelly is 37th for attempted and 40 somethingth for successful... whilst Norwood, who you recently dismissed if I recall correctly was 16th and 20 somethingth respectively. That's from a total of 72 players.

Ezatolahi doesn't have enough starts to qualify.

I think you’re making assumptions on what I think there a bit Ian.

I’m not a fan of Bacuna particularly too inconsistent. And Meyler might have something to offer defensively. He’s done it in the past, Christ knows what’s wrong with him.

Kelly possibly does get a bad press however that might be because positionally he is poor and his passing can be erratic.

Problem I have is that as a unit this midfield stands off, let’s the opposition play round and through us and fails to compete and win the ball back. Defensively it is poor and it puts pressure on the rest of the team. These stats don’t really show letting a team out play you in midfield. I think you win and lose games in midfield and I like a midfield to take control of a game.

That’s just my opinion however unqualified I am to express it.

[Snowflake Royal]

That's nice Leon, but all I was doing was pointing out your made up statement was wrong. I mean I even said that tackling isn't the be all and end all, nor did I say out midfield was good.

[NewCorkSeth]

That's nice Leon, but all I was doing was pointing out your made up statement was wrong. I mean I even said that tackling isn't the be all and end all, nor did I say out midfield was good.

Who has, based on the whoscored stats, the best midfield in the league in terms of tackling? (You can just link the stat page you used if you want)

[Hound]

Not a fan of using black and white statistics to try to make a point

What constitutes a successful tackle? Does it count if you’ve lost the ball in the first place and then try a tackle to get it back?

What i can see with my own eyes is that defensively all 3 of Bacuna, Swift and Kelly are pretty weak. Bacuna however has scored a winner and assisted an equaliser in the last two games however and therefore doubt he has been dropped long term. Think he’ll be back in for Tuesday

[leon]

Seriously, it was a flippant comment about the midfield being shit. No more than that.

Do you think you maybe take some things a little too seriously Ian?

[Zip]

Not a fan of using black and white statistics to try to make a point

What constitutes a successful tackle? Does it count if you’ve lost the ball in the first place and then try a tackle to get it back?

What i can see with my own eyes is that defensively all 3 of Bacuna, Swift and Kelly are pretty weak. Bacuna however has scored a winner and assisted an equaliser in the last two games however and therefore doubt he has been dropped long term. Think he’ll be back in for Tuesday

Yep agreed. It’s more than just tackling too. Both Kelly and Swift are outmuscled and knocked off the ball too easily.
What we are seeing week in week out are opposition teams having far more attempts at goal than us. It happens in most games. We don’t seem to press as much as other teams who seem to have more time in the ball than we do.
That’s not just down to our midfield. It’s about the whole team.
As for Bacuna I just do not know what to make of him. He is very inconsistent. He’s not the only one.

[Snowflake Royal]

Seriously, it was a flippant comment about the midfield being shit. No more than that.

Do you think you maybe take some things a little too seriously Ian?

I like that your takeaway is that I take things too seriously rather than you were wrong and shouldn't just make crap up.

Sorry for taking what you said seriously, it's not like it's a discussion forum.

[Snowflake Royal]

Not a fan of using black and white statistics to try to make a point

What constitutes a successful tackle? Does it count if you’ve lost the ball in the first place and then try a tackle to get it back?

What i can see with my own eyes is that defensively all 3 of Bacuna, Swift and Kelly are pretty weak. Bacuna however has scored a winner and assisted an equaliser in the last two games however and therefore doubt he has been dropped long term. Think he’ll be back in for Tuesday

Yep agreed. It’s more than just tackling too. Both Kelly and Swift are outmuscled and knocked off the ball too easily.
What we are seeing week in week out are opposition teams having far more attempts at goal than us. It happens in most games. We don’t seem to press as much as other teams who seem to have more time in the ball than we do.
That’s not just down to our midfield. It’s about the whole team.
As for Bacuna I just do not know what to make of him. He is very inconsistent. He’s not the only one.

Stats are a useful objective counterpoint to subjective personal view, but of course they're never more than that. Hardly definitive. And obviously tackling is only a tiny slice of defensive work.

[leon]

Seriously, it was a flippant comment about the midfield being shit. No more than that.

Do you think you maybe take some things a little too seriously Ian?

I like that your takeaway is that I take things too seriously rather than you were wrong and shouldn't just make crap up.

Sorry for taking what you sanid seriously, it's not like it's a discussion forum.

[quote="leon”]

He tries to tackle,

The rest of them don’t.[/quote]



Take a chill pill Ian.

[leon]

Quote fail hell going on there to boot.