ArsenaLOL

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From Despair To Where?
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Re: ArsenaLOL

by From Despair To Where? » 26 Aug 2016 20:57

Hendo
Royal Rother Haven't they spent £100m this window?


Nah, looking at SSN, they have only bought in Xhaka (£34m) & Rob Holding (Undisc.) so unless Holding cost £66m..... :shock:


It's about £90m if you include Mustafi and Perez who are undergoing medicals. I presume Rother quoted that figure from the BBC article that states "nearly £100m" in reference to the imminent signing of those 2.


Anyway, it's only taken a couple of hours for RoyallyFcuked to be shown up as talking bollocks again. Spending £34m on a player is a con trick to encourage people to buy season tickets? That's one expensive con trick.

I'm no fan of Arsenal or Wenger particularly and he may be long in the tooth, but under him, but they haven't finished outside the Top 4. The preceding 18 years before that their average finishing position was 5th so basically, their lowest finishing position under him is higher than their average finishing position for the 18 years before him.

I think they have shown that you can spend within your means and still compete which is surely a good thing.
Last edited by From Despair To Where? on 26 Aug 2016 21:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by RoyallyFcuked » 26 Aug 2016 21:13

Brosef Stalin They came second last year, that's not too shabby.

United have been a shower of shit since Fergie retired. Can't just assume
it'll all magically transform with a new manager. Liverpool have spunked
over 1/2 a billion since '92 and have yet to win the league


I guess the league table never lies but it felt like they didn't really deserve second place, it certainly papered over some of the cracks anyway.

Wenger is not Ferguson. There was bound to be a hangover from Fergie leaving as he was highly successful until his retirement and won the league in his final season. Look what signing Van Persie did for them that year. The mere mortal that took over from Fergie never stood much chance, particularly with an ageing squad that was in need of a revamp, but seeing as Fergie had just managed to win the league with them (showing his brilliance again as they weren't even the best squad on paper), it wasn't deemed necessary.

Wenger meanwhile hasn't won the league title in 12 years, hasn't reached a Champions League semi final in 7 years and went 9 years without a single trophy. Surely he should have left when he ended that drought with the FA Cup win and went out on a bit of a high. Look at United now, a new genuine top end manager in Mourinho and a couple of high class signings and they already look a different side and suddenly a formidable force once again.

Sure spending money doesn't guarentee success, its about bringing the right people in at the right time, which is what Arsenal fail to do these days. No one is asking them to spend crazy money, like £90m for Pogba. Just enough to compete with the teams around them, surely its not too much to ask. They'd never even spent more than around £25m on a player before they signed Ozil 3 years ago, and then Sanchez the year after. Since that season they haven't done much at all, last season they spent £17m on two players in two transfer windows.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by Hendo » 26 Aug 2016 21:34

From Despair To Where?
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Royal Rother Haven't they spent £100m this window?


Nah, looking at SSN, they have only bought in Xhaka (£34m) & Rob Holding (Undisc.) so unless Holding cost £66m..... :shock:


It's about £90m if you include Mustafi and Perez who are undergoing medicals. I presume Rother quoted that figure from the BBC article that states "nearly £100m" in reference to the imminent signing of those 2.




Fair enough. I wasn't including them so probably right.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by RoyallyFcuked » 26 Aug 2016 21:40

From Despair To Where?
Hendo
Royal Rother Haven't they spent £100m this window?


Nah, looking at SSN, they have only bought in Xhaka (£34m) & Rob Holding (Undisc.) so unless Holding cost £66m..... :shock:


It's about £90m if you include Mustafi and Perez who are undergoing medicals. I presume Rother quoted that figure from the BBC article that states "nearly £100m" in reference to the imminent signing of those 2.


Anyway, it's only taken a couple of hours for RoyallyFcuked to be shown up as talking bollocks again. Spending £34m on a player is a con trick to encourage people to buy season tickets? That's one expensive con trick.

I'm no fan of Arsenal or Wenger particularly and he may be long in the tooth, but under him, but they haven't finished outside the Top 4. The preceding 18 years before that their average finishing position was 5th so basically, their lowest finishing position under him is higher than their average finishing position for the 18 years before him.

I think they have shown that you can spend within your means and still compete which is surely a good thing.


Mustafi is decent enough I guess but neither he or Perez are going to have Arsenal fans drooling lets be honest, and weren't they considering Perez earlier in the summer only to look elsewhere? They now have to overspend on those two as they are desperate (and overspending is exactly what they don't want to do.) Looks like panic buying to me, I wonder what happened with their first choices? Could have had Lacazette for around £30m but Wenger was stalling on the price as usual, then he scores a hat trick and his value goes up another £10m.

Obviously they wanted Xhaka, but the timing of it meant many fans saw that and believed the club was going to do its business early, or even that it was the benchmark for things to come this summer. Thus making them buy or renew season tickets when they otherwise would have reconsidered this season. What they didn't expect was that to be the only top signing they'd have made approaching the end of the window, when they need at least 2 more.

No one is denying that Wenger has made them a higher finishing club than they were 30+ years ago, its the fall from grace over the last 10 or so years thats the problem. What your saying is exactly whats wrong at Arsenal, too many of the new generation of fans are (like the board) happy to come top 4 every season, while the real fans that lived the 90s and early 00s know the club is underachieving and a lot of them don't accept it. Arsenal should be challenging for the title, not challenging to come in the top 4.

The club spends far LESS than within its means, whether thats down to personal greed from the board and manager or something else I don't know. They can't even use the 'paying off the stadium' excuse anymore. Wenger is the league's highest paid manager.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by Brosef Stalin » 26 Aug 2016 21:59

RoyallyFcuked
Brosef Stalin They came second last year, that's not too shabby.

United have been a shower of shit since Fergie retired. Can't just assume
it'll all magically transform with a new manager. Liverpool have spunked
over 1/2 a billion since '92 and have yet to win the league


The mere mortal that took over from Fergie never stood much chance, particularly with an ageing squad that was in need of a revamp, but seeing as Fergie had just managed to win the league with them (showing his brilliance again as they weren't even the best squad on paper), it wasn't deemed necessary.

Look at United now, a new genuine top end manager in Mourinho and a couple of high class signings and they already look a different side and suddenly a formidable force once again.
.


When Fergie left, United's average age was 25/26 i.e. the same as it was over pretty much his entire reign

United have done alright against two average/poor sides


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Re: ArsenaLOL

by From Despair To Where? » 26 Aug 2016 22:00

I think it's the new fans who are used to success that have the high expectations, not the ones who saw shit football and relegation battles in the 80's.

The club, for whatever reason have decided that finishing Top 4 and qualifying for the Champions League is the objective and Wenger delivers year in, year out. I don't know what the owners game is but the club is competitive, consistent and stable. They play decent football, have a good mix of youth and experience, British and foreign and they do it without spaffing huge sums on transfer fees. Must clubs would kill for that.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by RoyallyFcuked » 26 Aug 2016 22:31

Brosef Stalin When Fergie left, United's average age was 25/26 i.e. the same as it was over pretty much his entire reign

United have done alright against two average/poor sides


Source? Even if it was, a revamp was still needed, and the main point I was making was Fergie has been far more successful than Wenger, particularly in the 10 years before Fergie retired. Its very difficult to replace someone as succesful as he was, far more so than someone of Wenger's current standard.

I'd be surprised if either Southampton or Bournemouth went down, and United will finish top 2 this season.

From Despair To Where? I think it's the new fans who are used to success that have the high expectations, not the ones who saw shit football and relegation battles in the 80's.

The club, for whatever reason have decided that finishing Top 4 and qualifying for the Champions League is the objective and Wenger delivers year in, year out. I don't know what the owners game is but the club is competitive, consistent and stable. They play decent football, have a good mix of youth and experience, British and foreign and they do it without spaffing huge sums on transfer fees. Must clubs would kill for that.


I'm not so sure on the first part, there are plenty of Gooners that are 40+ years old that don't find the current situation acceptable, in fact they are sick of it. While the youngest generation of fans can barely remember the invincibles season so they are used to this 'top 4 is enough' mentality.

You make some decent points in the second part, I'm just questioning whether its enough for them year after year. Arsenal could and probably should, be doing better.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by Royal Rother » 26 Aug 2016 22:35

I know 3 Arsenal fans.

The 70 year old is reasonably sanguine, asking "who would come in and do better?"

The 50 year old thinks Wenger is an utter liability and is so frustrated he can hardly bear to watch them.

The 22 year old has threatened to do time for Wenger if he ever meets him.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by Ian Royal » 26 Aug 2016 22:35

RoyallyFcuked
Brosef Stalin They came second last year, that's not too shabby.

United have been a shower of shit since Fergie retired. Can't just assume
it'll all magically transform with a new manager. Liverpool have spunked
over 1/2 a billion since '92 and have yet to win the league


I guess the league table never lies but it felt like they didn't really deserve second place, it certainly papered over some of the cracks anyway.

Wenger is not Ferguson. There was bound to be a hangover from Fergie leaving as he was highly successful until his retirement and won the league in his final season. Look what signing Van Persie did for them that year. The mere mortal that took over from Fergie never stood much chance, particularly with an ageing squad that was in need of a revamp, but seeing as Fergie had just managed to win the league with them (showing his brilliance again as they weren't even the best squad on paper), it wasn't deemed necessary.

Wenger meanwhile hasn't won the league title in 12 years, hasn't reached a Champions League semi final in 7 years and went 9 years without a single trophy. Surely he should have left when he ended that drought with the FA Cup win and went out on a bit of a high. Look at United now, a new genuine top end manager in Mourinho and a couple of high class signings and they already look a different side and suddenly a formidable force once again.

Sure spending money doesn't guarentee success, its about bringing the right people in at the right time, which is what Arsenal fail to do these days. No one is asking them to spend crazy money, like £90m for Pogba. Just enough to compete with the teams around them, surely its not too much to ask. They'd never even spent more than around £25m on a player before they signed Ozil 3 years ago, and then Sanchez the year after. Since that season they haven't done much at all, last season they spent £17m on two players in two transfer windows.

I'd wait until Mourinho achieves something at Utd before crowing about him. He wen utterly mental at Chelsea, is renowned for falling apart, does not fit the Utd brand and they are still firmly in their Fergie hangover.


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Re: ArsenaLOL

by NewCorkSeth » 31 Aug 2016 16:26

How do Tottenham sell Mason for 13 million but Gnabry moves for 5? Is Levy just really good at his job or is there some kind of buyback, Barcelona style deal going on?

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by Hendo » 31 Aug 2016 23:16

Levy is just a wizard.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by genome » 01 Sep 2016 09:16

Hendo Levy is just a wizard.


Spending £30m on Sissoko kind of detracts from your point there.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by Hoop Blah » 01 Sep 2016 09:25

NewCorkSeth How do Tottenham sell Mason for 13 million but Gnabry moves for 5? Is Levy just really good at his job or is there some kind of buyback, Barcelona style deal going on?


I've seen £8m quoted for Gnarby and £10m for Mason so not sure what the actual figures are.

Ultimately though Mason has played 50 games for a side that almost won the league last season and Gnarby couldn't get a run out with West Brom so I can see how Mason might cost more.


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Re: ArsenaLOL

by NewCorkSeth » 01 Sep 2016 09:36

Hoop Blah
NewCorkSeth How do Tottenham sell Mason for 13 million but Gnabry moves for 5? Is Levy just really good at his job or is there some kind of buyback, Barcelona style deal going on?


I've seen £8m quoted for Gnarby and £10m for Mason so not sure what the actual figures are.

Ultimately though Mason has played 50 games for a side that almost won the league last season and Gnarby couldn't get a run out with West Brom so I can see how Mason might cost more.

I also have no idea of the actual figures. Its annoying that clubs keep these things private. Fans really should be able to see what the club are spending on transfers. Or not. Debate for another day.
I assumed it was pure English premium that pushed Masons price up but as you say he made 50 apps in 2 good seasons. The fact I found most interesting last season was that out of the 10 games Mason or Bentaleb started last season they only won 2, which is why my brother put a score down on tottenham to come 3rd when they were their only options left.
On the Gnabry issue I would argue not player for Arsenal regularly as an attacking player when Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla and Ramsey are ahead of you is understandable. Not playing regularly for West Brom when youre 5ft8 and managed by Tony Pulis is also understandable.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by Hoop Blah » 01 Sep 2016 10:14

NewCorkSeth On the Gnabry issue I would argue not player for Arsenal regularly as an attacking player when Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla and Ramsey are ahead of you is understandable. Not playing regularly for West Brom when youre 5ft8 and managed by Tony Pulis is also understandable.


Yeah, I get what you mean, but Pullis must've wanted him in the first place, and he's played people like Sessegnon and Berahino on plenty of occasions. To not have even got a few games off the bench is a little odd though (unless Pullis didn't actually want him and there was a lot more to it than that).

Hull's need for a half decent midfielder means that Mason has quite a value to them and in this day and age the going rate for an average Premier League midfielder is probably what they've ended up paying. Don't forget Mason was flavour of the month for a while and made his England debut whilst doing a good job for Spurs at the time.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by NewCorkSeth » 01 Sep 2016 10:23

Hoop Blah
NewCorkSeth On the Gnabry issue I would argue not player for Arsenal regularly as an attacking player when Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla and Ramsey are ahead of you is understandable. Not playing regularly for West Brom when youre 5ft8 and managed by Tony Pulis is also understandable.


Yeah, I get what you mean, but Pullis must've wanted him in the first place, and he's played people like Sessegnon and Berahino on plenty of occasions. To not have even got a few games off the bench is a little odd though (unless Pullis didn't actually want him and there was a lot more to it than that).

Hull's need for a half decent midfielder means that Mason has quite a value to them and in this day and age the going rate for an average Premier League midfielder is probably what they've ended up paying. Don't forget Mason was flavour of the month for a while and made his England debut whilst doing a good job for Spurs at the time.

Did Pulis not quit at Palace because of them signing players he didn't want? Or was it they wouldn't sign players he did want? Anyway your probably correct in assuming he did want Gnabry and perhaps Gnabry didn't have the qualities the unrelegatable Pulis was looking for.
Do we have any Arsenal fans here to say how the club feels about him leaving?

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by Hendo » 01 Sep 2016 12:11

genome
Hendo Levy is just a wizard.


Spending £30m on Sissoko kind of detracts from your point there.


There is always an exception which proves the rule.

*Cliché number 45 in Hendo's Big Book of Clichés

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by multisync1830 » 04 Sep 2016 19:20

Royal Rother I know 3 Arsenal fans.

The 70 year old is reasonably sanguine, asking "who would come in and do better?"



The one 69 3/4 yr old arsenal fan I know thinks exactly the same.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by NewCorkSeth » 12 Nov 2016 13:48

Not very interesting but Gnabry scored a hat trick on his Germany debut. Im still amazed he was let go for such a low price.

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Re: ArsenaLOL

by BR0B0T » 13 Dec 2016 22:52


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