Reap what you sow

[Cypry]

Somehow I do think our club has to cut down on selling it's best younger players if we have a genuine aspiration of reaching the Premier League again as the manager and staff cannot consistently pull rabbits out of the hat and apart from the untried Obita there is quite a gap between the 22 year olds (or thereabouts) in Church,Pearce,Karacan,HRK and McCarthy and players from the Academy to replenish our stock-where are the 21,20,19 and 18 year olds pushing for first team places that happens with most clubs?
Has the Academy supply line that the club now supposedly will rely upon now dried up?

If one assumes that players with squad numbers are pushing for first team places, we've got:

Sean Morrison - 20 (albeit not from the academy)
Jake Taylor - 19
Michail Antonio - 21
Nicholas Bignall - 21
Jacob Walcott - 19
Michael Hector - 19
Jack Mills - 19
Jordan Obita - 17
Lawson d'Ath - 19
and as of yesterday - Joseph Mills - 21

Obviously that doesn't include some of the under 18's without squad numbers - Nick Arnold, Gozie Ugwu, Ethan Gage, the Edwards brothers, Frankie Raymond.....

To me, that looks like quite a reasonable pipeline.....

[RoyalBlue]

One frustration for fans is the mixed messages that emanate from our club.
One minute it is all about our ambition to get back to the Premier League,the next it is that we have serious money problems and the next is that we have to sell our best players and we won't get as much as you fans think so don't raise your hopes for new players ( which in most people's eyes contradicts the stated ambition of promotion).So it goes round and round with the chairman and manager talking up players who this week have been poor and show no signs of being up there later on.
Also when you look at a team sheet that includes the likes of Harte,Hunt and Church you are bound to query whether this team has a chance of promotion as it is weaker than last season when we didn't get promotion.

i dont think there is a mixed message at all.
i dont think there is any contradiction in saying we have an ambition to get back to the prem, and also saying we have to do so while managing our finances strictly.

internet morons think that ambitions and goals are things we are promising to definitely achieve, and bloody soon, at any cost.rather than simply being aspirational, but that doesnt mean thats what ambition, and goals actually means

Could somebody please translate.[/quote]

for the brain spazzers among you.its not a mixed message.
ambitions, and goals are aspirational.
saying"i have ambition" doesnt mean you are promising to throw everything you possibly can at it.
it is possible to have two ambitions. you could have ambition to get to the premiere league, and have a goal to be financially independant. and youd have to balance the two.

pretty simple really.[/quote]

You conveniently forget all the times that Chairman Maodejski spouted off about 'real' and 'genuine' ambition, complete with indications of relatively short timescales, as well as 'providing the resources to allow us to compete effectively at this level'. 'Real and genuine' suggest something rather more driven than vague aspirations. As for competing effectively at this level, we are struggling to do so financially and I suspect that as a result of his latest sales we will also struggle to compete effectively on the pitch.

[Victor Meldrew]

brendy,
Presumably I am one of those morons or spazzers that you describe fellow RFC fans in such a genteel way?
I have to say that I have the aspiration/goal/ambition to one day read one of your thousands of posts and understand what the f*** you are on about.
Should I have written this in lower case and give you the headache that you cause the morons and spazzers to get when they try to read what you write?

[Victor Meldrew]

Somehow I do think our club has to cut down on selling it's best younger players if we have a genuine aspiration of reaching the Premier League again as the manager and staff cannot consistently pull rabbits out of the hat and apart from the untried Obita there is quite a gap between the 22 year olds (or thereabouts) in Church,Pearce,Karacan,HRK and McCarthy and players from the Academy to replenish our stock-where are the 21,20,19 and 18 year olds pushing for first team places that happens with most clubs?
Has the Academy supply line that the club now supposedly will rely upon now dried up?

If one assumes that players with squad numbers are pushing for first team places, we've got:

Sean Morrison - 20 (albeit not from the academy)
Jake Taylor - 19
Michail Antonio - 21
Nicholas Bignall - 21
Jacob Walcott - 19
Michael Hector - 19
Jack Mills - 19
Jordan Obita - 17
Lawson d'Ath - 19
and as of yesterday - Joseph Mills - 21

Obviously that doesn't include some of the under 18's without squad numbers - Nick Arnold, Gozie Ugwu, Ethan Gage, the Edwards brothers, Frankie Raymond.....

To me, that looks like quite a reasonable pipeline.....

So delete
Morrison
New Mills
Antonio
None of these came from The Academy.
Out of the rest (and I said that Obita is one of the very few pressing for a first team place)how many are now ready to step up?

[brendywendy]

brendy,
Presumably I am one of those morons or spazzers that you describe fellow RFC fans in such a genteel way?
I have to say that I have the aspiration/goal/ambition to one day read one of your thousands of posts and understand what the f*** you are on about.
Should I have written this in lower case and give you the headache that you cause the morons and spazzers to get when they try to read what you write?

i wouldnt presume anything victor.
i would usually say if you feel that i am indecipherable, dont bother reading.luckily im not posting for anyones benefit but my own.

but instead:

it was meant to be a simple point that people seem to be misunderstanding what having ambition, and having goals actually means.
my humblest apologies for not putting it in a way that you understood. i shall endeavor to do better in future.

B.W.E
Building a Better Board

[Victor Meldrew]

Can understand why Ian Royal doesn't go to be fair, Cambridge to Ding is a commute and I wouldn't watch Reading if they were playing in my back garden. Would turn the sprinklers on and close the curtains.

Well you can f*** off as well then.

[Royal Rother]

Incidentally I love it when people talk about reaching the quarter-finals of the FA Cup as if it is some massive achievement-reaching the quarter-finals IS massive if you start in round 1 but to be losing quarter-finalists having come in at round 3 is not IMHO sensational it should be round about the norm for a middle range Championship club when the Premier clubs nearly all put out weakened teams and of course in a knockout competition a number of Premier clubs will have been drawn against each other and be knocked out by round 5.

You do realise how many teams are left in the QFs?

[Victor Meldrew]

brendy,
Presumably I am one of those morons or spazzers that you describe fellow RFC fans in such a genteel way?
I have to say that I have the aspiration/goal/ambition to one day read one of your thousands of posts and understand what the f*** you are on about.
Should I have written this in lower case and give you the headache that you cause the morons and spazzers to get when they try to read what you write?

i wouldnt presume anything victor.
i would usually say if you feel that i am indecipherable, dont bother reading.luckily im not posting for anyones benefit but my own.

but instead:

it was meant to be a simple point that people seem to be misunderstanding what having ambition, and having goals actually means.
my humblest apologies for not putting it in a way that you understood. i shall endeavor to do better in future.

B.W.E
Building a Better Board

The trouble is brendy you post so many times on so many topics that it is hard to get past you.

[Victor Meldrew]

Incidentally I love it when people talk about reaching the quarter-finals of the FA Cup as if it is some massive achievement-reaching the quarter-finals IS massive if you start in round 1 but to be losing quarter-finalists having come in at round 3 is not IMHO sensational it should be round about the norm for a middle range Championship club when the Premier clubs nearly all put out weakened teams and of course in a knockout competition a number of Premier clubs will have been drawn against each other and be knocked out by round 5.

You do realise how many teams are left in the QFs?

Yes,eight.
Cardiff and Millwall have even reached the final in recent years let alone semis and quarters.
Your point is?

[PEARCEY]

Incidentally I love it when people talk about reaching the quarter-finals of the FA Cup as if it is some massive achievement-reaching the quarter-finals IS massive if you start in round 1 but to be losing quarter-finalists having come in at round 3 is not IMHO sensational it should be round about the norm for a middle range Championship club when the Premier clubs nearly all put out weakened teams and of course in a knockout competition a number of Premier clubs will have been drawn against each other and be knocked out by round 5.

You do realise how many teams are left in the QFs?

I'm usually with Victor but yes this was an odd one. I'd say reaching two consecutive Q/F's is an excellent achievement and one not matched by any other Championship club in the past two seasons.

[brendywendy]

If one assumes that players with squad numbers are pushing for first team places, we've got:

Sean Morrison - 20 (albeit not from the academy)
Jake Taylor - 19
Michail Antonio - 21
Nicholas Bignall - 21
Jacob Walcott - 19
Michael Hector - 19
Jack Mills - 19
Jordan Obita - 17
Lawson d'Ath - 19
and as of yesterday - Joseph Mills - 21

Obviously that doesn't include some of the under 18's without squad numbers - Nick Arnold, Gozie Ugwu, Ethan Gage, the Edwards brothers, Frankie Raymond.....

To me, that looks like quite a reasonable pipeline.....

So delete
Morrison
New Mills
Antonio
None of these came from The Academy.
Out of the rest (and I said that Obita is one of the very few pressing for a first team place)how many are now ready to step up?

forgive me if you dont understand this.i realise i may have a writing "style" that isnt to your taste, but


when someone shows a track record of doing something over and over again, i see no reason not to believe they will continue. it seems more evidence based than saying they cant.

and either way that list shows that the pipeline hasnt dried up just yet.

[brendywendy]

brendy,
Presumably I am one of those morons or spazzers that you describe fellow RFC fans in such a genteel way?
I have to say that I have the aspiration/goal/ambition to one day read one of your thousands of posts and understand what the f*** you are on about.
Should I have written this in lower case and give you the headache that you cause the morons and spazzers to get when they try to read what you write?

i wouldnt presume anything victor.
i would usually say if you feel that i am indecipherable, dont bother reading.luckily im not posting for anyones benefit but my own.

but instead:

it was meant to be a simple point that people seem to be misunderstanding what having ambition, and having goals actually means.
my humblest apologies for not putting it in a way that you understood. i shall endeavor to do better in future.

B.W.E
Building a Better Board

The trouble is brendy you post so many times on so many topics that it is hard to get past you.

i can only apologise, and try in future to post less about ess.

[Cypry]

If one assumes that players with squad numbers are pushing for first team places, we've got:

Sean Morrison - 20 (albeit not from the academy)
Jake Taylor - 19
Michail Antonio - 21
Nicholas Bignall - 21
Jacob Walcott - 19
Michael Hector - 19
Jack Mills - 19
Jordan Obita - 17
Lawson d'Ath - 19
and as of yesterday - Joseph Mills - 21

Obviously that doesn't include some of the under 18's without squad numbers - Nick Arnold, Gozie Ugwu, Ethan Gage, the Edwards brothers, Frankie Raymond.....

To me, that looks like quite a reasonable pipeline.....

So delete
Morrison
New Mills
Antonio
None of these came from The Academy.
Out of the rest (and I said that Obita is one of the very few pressing for a first team place)how many are now ready to step up?

Erm, why does it matter where they come from anyway?
Regardless, 7 out of 10 are academy products, of those, Taylor, Bignall, Obita and Lawson d'Ath have all either played for the first team, or made a match day squad (what's that if it's not "pressing for a first team place"?), Walcott, Hector and Jack Mills were all out on loan for large parts of last season.....

[Royal Rother]

Incidentally I love it when people talk about reaching the quarter-finals of the FA Cup as if it is some massive achievement-reaching the quarter-finals IS massive if you start in round 1 but to be losing quarter-finalists having come in at round 3 is not IMHO sensational it should be round about the norm for a middle range Championship club when the Premier clubs nearly all put out weakened teams and of course in a knockout competition a number of Premier clubs will have been drawn against each other and be knocked out by round 5.

You do realise how many teams are left in the QFs?

Yes,eight.
Cardiff and Millwall have even reached the final in recent years let alone semis and quarters.
Your point is?

For some bizarre reason you seem unable to work out what brendy is on about but I'm still pretty confident you can work this one out for yourself.

[Red]

[Victor Meldrew]

In reply to RR,
My comment was based on 20 Premier League clubs not taking the competition seriously and therefore as shown by Cardiff and Millwall making quarter-finals,semi-finals and even finals in the past few years as Championship clubs the reaching of a quarter-final for a Championship club is no big deal.
I do agree that in the context of our club's history when for most of the time we have entered at round 1 then reaching the quarter-final having entered at round 3 is a fair achievement but no better than reaching round 4 as a lower division club especially as we had 4 home games out of 6 in the past 2 years and one of the away games was at a side just out of non-league football.
Perhaps I am not too easily pleased but I put that down to my ambition.

[Victor Meldrew]

If one assumes that players with squad numbers are pushing for first team places, we've got:

Sean Morrison - 20 (albeit not from the academy)
Jake Taylor - 19
Michail Antonio - 21
Nicholas Bignall - 21
Jacob Walcott - 19
Michael Hector - 19
Jack Mills - 19
Jordan Obita - 17
Lawson d'Ath - 19
and as of yesterday - Joseph Mills - 21

Obviously that doesn't include some of the under 18's without squad numbers - Nick Arnold, Gozie Ugwu, Ethan Gage, the Edwards brothers, Frankie Raymond.....

To me, that looks like quite a reasonable pipeline.....

So delete
Morrison
New Mills
Antonio
None of these came from The Academy.
Out of the rest (and I said that Obita is one of the very few pressing for a first team place)how many are now ready to step up?

Erm, why does it matter where they come from anyway?
Regardless, 7 out of 10 are academy products, of those, Taylor, Bignall, Obita and Lawson d'Ath have all either played for the first team, or made a match day squad (what's that if it's not "pressing for a first team place"?), Walcott, Hector and Jack Mills were all out on loan for large parts of last season.....

Of course it matters where they came from as they cost money and didn't come through the academy.
I think you need to take a look at yourself if you really believe that these lads are pressing for first team places.

[Cypry]

Of course it matters where they came from as they cost money and didn't come through the academy.
I think you need to take a look at yourself if you really believe that these lads are pressing for first team places.

So how do you define pressing for a first team place then?
I'd say that making the bench, or the occasional start was most definitely pressing for a place - they may have less of an opportunity this year (mainly down to the reduction in sub numbers) but I'm sure we'll see most, if not all of them feature at some point this season...

In terms of cost, Morrison cost us (a rumoured) £250,000, Antonio was effectively an amateur when we signed him from Tooting and Mitcham, I'd be surprised if he cost more than £50k, no idea what Mills cost, but it's irrelevant - if we develop them, and they turn into players worth a few bob, then we'll still make some cash if we decide to sell them.......whether they're from the academy or not makes next to no difference.....

[Victor Meldrew]

Of course it matters where they came from as they cost money and didn't come through the academy.
I think you need to take a look at yourself if you really believe that these lads are pressing for first team places.

So how do you define pressing for a first team place then?
I'd say that making the bench, or the occasional start was most definitely pressing for a place - they may have less of an opportunity this year (mainly down to the reduction in sub numbers) but I'm sure we'll see most, if not all of them feature at some point this season...

In terms of cost, Morrison cost us (a rumoured) £250,000, Antonio was effectively an amateur when we signed him from Tooting and Mitcham, I'd be surprised if he cost more than £50k, no idea what Mills cost, but it's irrelevant - if we develop them, and they turn into players worth a few bob, then we'll still make some cash if we decide to sell them.......whether they're from the academy or not makes next to no difference.....

It does make a difference if the point was about who was coming through the Academy.

[Cypry]

Of course it matters where they came from as they cost money and didn't come through the academy.
I think you need to take a look at yourself if you really believe that these lads are pressing for first team places.

So how do you define pressing for a first team place then?
I'd say that making the bench, or the occasional start was most definitely pressing for a place - they may have less of an opportunity this year (mainly down to the reduction in sub numbers) but I'm sure we'll see most, if not all of them feature at some point this season...

In terms of cost, Morrison cost us (a rumoured) £250,000, Antonio was effectively an amateur when we signed him from Tooting and Mitcham, I'd be surprised if he cost more than £50k, no idea what Mills cost, but it's irrelevant - if we develop them, and they turn into players worth a few bob, then we'll still make some cash if we decide to sell them.......whether they're from the academy or not makes next to no difference.....

It does make a difference if the point was about who was coming through the Academy.

Sorry - thought the point was regarding younger players pushing for a place (the supply line), rather than specifically about the academy