Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

[Snowball]

Aye – over half the time he’s been playing a deeper role, or sharing attacking duties.

Assists are a worthless stat, anyway. It would be interesting to know how often he played a significant part in the creation of a goal or chance. But then stats can’t really measure that.

Nor can they give you any genuine idea of an individual players performance.

Strange then, that when Long wasn't scoring loads of goals
the feeling on the board was "For a striker, goals are everything"

and "Bottom line he doesn't score enough goals..."

It would be interesting to know how often he played a significant part in the creation of a goal or chance

I went trawling the match reports to see if it was true that "many of Harte's free-kick goals
were due to Howard being brought down on the edge of the box" as someone suggested.

I found no real evidence for that claim, but what struck me is how often in match reports
the ONLY mention of Howard is in the starting team. ie: he's not mentioned in a move that
leads to a goal.

One "secondary assist" he did get was to feed Antonio (excellent short through-ball)
who then gave the ball to Church to sweep in from close range (1-0 v Ipswich)


If you trawl through this board looking at match opinions this season, they are overwhelmingly
of the impression (apart from a couple of games) that Howard doesn't work very hard, or tackle hard,
or provide much tackling back cover (and when he does he costs goals)

eg his stupid penalty at QPR, his tackle v Doncaster, free-kick resulted in a goal
(tho TBF I thought the tackle was legal at the time)

[Ian Royal]

Aye – over half the time he’s been playing a deeper role, or sharing attacking duties.

Assists are a worthless stat, anyway. It would be interesting to know how often he played a significant part in the creation of a goal or chance. But then stats can’t really measure that.

Nor can they give you any genuine idea of an individual players performance.

No but I can, and I reckon he played a non assisting, positive role in the build up to more goals than he assisted on. I make it a positive contribution to about 14 league goals in total (so including assists, but not scoring). Only bettered by McAnuff ( who had about double the number of positive contributions to assists) and Long and about equal to Kebe. All players who made many more appearances than him.

His scoring record was very poor, and he did give the ball away too much, but his creative influence in terms of making goals is, IMO indisputable.

[Snowball]

Aye – over half the time he’s been playing a deeper role, or sharing attacking duties.

Assists are a worthless stat, anyway. It would be interesting to know how often he played a significant part in the creation of a goal or chance. But then stats can’t really measure that.

Nor can they give you any genuine idea of an individual players performance.

No but I can, and I reckon he played a non assisting, positive role in the build up to more goals than he assisted on. I make it a positive contribution to about 14 league goals in total (so including assists, but not scoring). Only bettered by McAnuff (about double the number of assists) and Long and about equal to Kebe. All players who made many more appearances than him.

His scoring record was very poor, and he did give the ball away too much, but his creative influence in terms of making goals is, IMO indisputable.

Kebe has 7 assists and 9 goals. In a blink that's SIXTEEN.

He also had the 90 M run which made Hunt's goal, but doesn't go down as an assist. 17 without checking further.

What games were those 14 positive contributions?

I'd love to see THAT list. You could add a fair few of those to Long and get his
active contribution up to fifty in all probability

Doesn't that get more and more subjective?

eg Long clearly gets the ball out to Pearce for the home game v Forest but he's never been credited with the assist, and it was his work that made it possible for Kebe to get the ball to Gylfi at Leicester.

And we know that one of Kebe's plusses is the other side has to double up on him
thus making room for others.


The problem with Brian H is he's currently NOT a goal thread, NOT good at winning tackles,
not good at tracking a man, and only OK in direct assists and secondary assists, so when he comes
on how often does that substitution "lift the spirits"? Truth is, like Simon this season, it doesn't

[Ian Royal]

^ For the record I'm assuming that's a load of statistical drivel that doesn't really take on board what I've actually posted and is just trying to pick a fight with me.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Strange then, that when Long wasn't scoring loads of goals
the feeling on the board was "For a striker, goals are everything"

You think it’s strange that a goal-scorer should be expected to score goals?

I went trawling the match reports…etc

You seem to be forgetting we aren’t at odds with Howard’s contribution. I’m just saying stats used in isolation for review or comparison is completely worthless.

However, again I think it’s important to remember how rarely the guy was used in his natural position.

[andrew1957]

The reality is that we now have Legs and Karacan as our first choice pairing in CM.

Howard's best role is behind the sole striker in a 4-2-3-1 but he does not score anywhere enough goals to be a long term answer in that role - which is why Hunt has replaced him in the second half of the season. Barring injuries Howard will not start for Reading next season which is why he wants to go.

I think he is a good player, but just not as good as our other options. We also have Taylor who can play the off the striker role and looks promising. If we can get some money for Howard it would be good for us and for him. He can do well elsewhere in a different set up. Not his fault but the purchase of Legs made him effectively redundant.

Tabb is good cover for the other two - as he is more of a like for like CM replacement.

[Snowball]

^ For the record I'm assuming that's a load of statistical drivel that doesn't really take on board what I've actually posted and is just trying to pick a fight with me.

Better to think that you were wrong, AGAIN.

Get new batteries for your radio.

[Snowball]

The reality is that we now have Legs and Karacan as our first choice pairing in CM.

Howard's best role is behind the sole striker in a 4-2-3-1 but he does not score anywhere enough goals to be a long term answer in that role - which is why Hunt has replaced him in the second half of the season. Barring injuries Howard will not start for Reading next season which is why he wants to go.

I think he is a good player, but just not as good as our other options. We also have Taylor who can play the off the striker role and looks promising. If we can get some money for Howard it would be good for us and for him. He can do well elsewhere in a different set up. Not his fault but the purchase of Legs made him effectively redundant.

Tabb is good cover for the other two - as he is more of a like for like CM replacement.

Yes.

Except to say that on top of the above, watching Howard he looks
either to not care enough or is lazy (or isn't really fit).

At Barnsley he did twice as much work as he had in any other game

[Wycombe Royal]

Kebe has 7 assists and 9 goals. In a blink that's SIXTEEN.

He also had the 90 M run which made Hunt's goal, but doesn't go down as an assist. 17 without checking further.

What games were those 14 positive contributions?

I'd love to see THAT list. You could add a fair few of those to Long and get his
active contribution up to fifty in all probability

Doesn't that get more and more subjective?

Why the incessant need to compare players who play in different positions? A winger or wide midfielder is always likely to score more goals and get more assists than a central midfielder, ditto for a striker.

Why do you never compare like for like?

What next? Are you going to compare Griffin's "positive" contributions to Kebe's and Long's and then say he doesn't do enough?

[Extended-Phenotype]

Howard's best role is behind the sole striker in a 4-2-3-1 but he does not score anywhere enough goals to be a long term answer in that role

Not sure how sound this assumption is when he rarely got a chance in this position to prove otherwise, but I wouldn’t be confident he’d prove you wrong.

Why do you [snowball] never compare like for like?

Apparently it’s also silly to expect a goal scorer to score goals, but if a central midfielder fails to find the net he’s not doing his job properly.

[Ian Royal]

The reality is that we now have Legs and Karacan as our first choice pairing in CM.

Howard's best role is behind the sole striker in a 4-2-3-1 but he does not score anywhere enough goals to be a long term answer in that role - which is why Hunt has replaced him in the second half of the season. Barring injuries Howard will not start for Reading next season which is why he wants to go.

I think he is a good player, but just not as good as our other options. We also have Taylor who can play the off the striker role and looks promising. If we can get some money for Howard it would be good for us and for him. He can do well elsewhere in a different set up. Not his fault but the purchase of Legs made him effectively redundant.

Tabb is good cover for the other two - as he is more of a like for like CM replacement.

I still think he could work well paired with Legs. It's a partnership that got virtually no games together. But then Karacan has been really good.

My main problem with letting Howard go is that our style is too one dimensional and predictable. If you suss out how to stop our wingers, you stop us. We don't have enough creativity in the middle of the park to vary our play enough. He's not really the answer, as you point out as he doesn't score goal.

[Extended-Phenotype]

We don't have enough creativity in the middle of the park to vary our play enough.

Aye, this has been my beef for a while. Not knocking Jem and Legs, but neither are apt playmakers. Fair enough if you have another body in midfield, but we are really missing a central spark.

If Howard was better, perhaps we would have tried 4-5-1. Personally I think we should wrong-foot our wings so they come inside through the middle (neither put in more than a handful of decent crosses all season), or look to bring in a more creative midfielder.

I like Karacan, but I do wonder why he gets so much praise. It’s not like he was racking up goals and assists either.

[Sarah Star]

I like Karacan, but I do wonder why he gets so much praise. It’s not like he was racking up goals and assists either.

I'm not sure if there are statistics that show how many times Karacan's won the ball through sheer determination or how many times he's harried the opposition into a mistake... or is this your point?

[CayeneMatt]

I like Karacan, but I do wonder why he gets so much praise. It’s not like he was racking up goals and assists either.

I'm not sure if there are statistics that show how many times....

Jesus, Snowball's taking his time........

[Snowball]

I like Karacan, but I do wonder why he gets so much praise. It’s not like he was racking up goals and assists either.

I'm not sure if there are statistics that show how many times....

Jesus, Snowball's taking his time........

Please don't use my first name in public

[Extended-Phenotype]

Aye, I appreciate he is a ball winner and a workhorse but while talking about creativity what exactly is Karacan doing? I mean, supposedly Legs is there to help Jem go forward more and dictate the attack – if we are critical of Howard for his failure in this department it would be only fair to remember Karacan hasn’t exactly embraced these duties with ease.

[Svlad Cjelli]

You don't always need creativity - breaking up the opposition's attacks and denying them space is just as effective.

A team needs a combination of skills and attributes - the most creative team in the world would be useless if they never got the ball and couldn't defend.

[brendywendy]

very little creativity in the middle in 05/06
worked a treat.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Svlad:

Show me where I suggested swapping all defensive ability for creativity, and I’ll give you a big kiss.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Svlad:

Show me where I suggested swapping all defensive ability for creativity, and I’ll give you a big kiss.

You didn't - but saying

but while talking about creativity what exactly is Karacan doing?

implies that you want to judge him on that factor.

My argument is that you don't need to judge him on that, as it's perfectly valid for players to bring no creativity to the party. (Although he does - some of his defence-splitting through balls for Kebe to run onto have been sublime).

BTW, I need a picture before I decide if I want that kiss!