Who needs to step up next season? Who is ready?

[Snowball]

Church needs to learn how to finish, learn to look along the line to stop getting caught offside and generally grow a pair.....because there is a half decent player there waiting to get out, but he seems riddled with self-doubt most of the time. Sort your head out or ship out.

He is not an out-and-out goalscorer though, and does anyone really think that Hunt and Manset are going to get us enough goals at this level . Reinvest the Long money in a new striker from the lower divisions who deserves a chance - Adam Le Fondre? - or bum around in midtable (or lower) all season. Simple as.

Hunt's overall record for Reading FC is not at all bad. He gets goals at near
a goal every 180 minutes and also gets plenty of assists

In his first season he was an excellent foil for Kevin Doyle and
typically played 60 minutes, more than matching Doyle on minute per goal

Noel was 2204 Minutes on the pitch for for 13 goals that season, a goal for every 169 minutes played. Top striking
Doyle got 18 Goals from 39 (2) = 3440 Minutes, a goal for every 191 minutes played.

57 (31) He is 5,176 Minutes for 26 goals, a goal every 199 minutes for his RFC career

That includes two seasons carrying an injury, then an op, and then a slow, steady rehabilitation.
If he gets a good injury-free pre-season he will be like a very good championship signing.

I'd say worth an each-way bet to be the league's top-scorer.



But what I would REALLY love is to start next season with Hunt-Long and with Elwood in the middle.

We could have TWO 20-goal strikers then

[Snowball]

Rotating and using the squad is quite different to going into a game/season thinking that Hunt for 60 followed by Manset for 30 is the answer to our centre forward problem.

I've not problem with changing things around but if Hunt isn't capable of consistently playing 90 minutes then the answer isn't using Manset to fill in for him when he's knackered.

I don't know whether Noel can play 90 or not.

Season 1 + 2 he was carrying a long-term knee injury
then he had the operation, and this season he has been "coming back"

His come-back games were: 00-00-15-00-05-10-27-24-90-00-35-18 getting back match fitness

but has had three decent runs where he played longer stints

73-90-90-90-69-65-90-58-10-65-86-80
OUT
67-80-90-86-87-87-75
OUT
36-69-65-77-12-84-90-75


and we know how well he got Shane to play (7 assists)

[Hoop Blah]

I think the most telling stat I've seen in regards to Hunt is that in 10 seasons he's only started more than 30 league games once.

I'd be quite quite interested to see how many of his starts ended in him being subtituted (obviously not all subtitutions are because he's run out of steam but I'd guess that quite a high percentate are).

Edit: I think Snowballs numbers there make it in 7/39 games he's seen out the 90 (inc games he's come off the bench which is a little unfair in some respects!).

[Snowball]

I think the most telling stat I've seen in regards to Hunt is that in 10 seasons he's only started more than 30 league games once.

I'd be quite quite interested to see how many of his starts ended in him being subtituted (obviously not all subtitutions are because he's run out of steam but I'd guess that quite a high percentate are).

Edit: I think Snowballs numbers there make it in 7/39 games he's seen out the 90 (inc games he's come off the bench which is a little unfair in some respects!).

Very unfair. Except for the Northampton game, he didn't come in to the side until well into the season. (Game 16)

He really only came back (sub, for 35 minutes) in the 4-3 win over Doncaster (Game 16) and turned the game with a brilliant cross for Karacan's goal.

He came on as a sub at QPR (18 mins) then started against Cardiff (scored), started against Norwich (scored), started v Watford (scored) started the next game (Millwall) scored again

Getting subbed in the last fifteen minutes or so isn't a sign of bad play. He had just scored, when starting, for 5 consecutive games, but was subbed on 80(Church).

90-90-90-90-90-90-87-87-86-86-84-80-80-77-77-75-75-73 (18 games) all serious contributions and 69-67-65 not far behind

so half a season with a serious contribution (from 2/3 available to him)

[Hoop Blah]

I'm not saying it's bad play thats always getting him subbed, why would you think that if you've taken in any of what I've said about the lad?

I think it would be interesting to see, over his Reading career, how many times he's been subbed off largely because I think he has issues getting through games. Part of the reason is he seems to almost work too hard at times and he just can't last at the pace he sets himself (could be a tactical thing from the management of course).

The sample you gave above was all I had to work with. It's difficult to quantify because you never really know why he's been taken off but having watched him, and seen how many games he's missed through injuries, I'd say a high proportion of his withdrawls will be down to running out of gas (sometimes it might be poor performance brought on by fatigue too so it's hard to measure).

[Snowball]

I thought I HAD explained


Season 1. He ARRIVED with a knee problem which was "managed" by playing him for 55-65 minutes and bringing on Long.

Season 2. He barely played (500 minutes or so because he couldn't. So they decided on the operation.

Season 3. First third. He was a LONNNNG way from real fitness and match fitness and was brought back slowly. Hardly counts.

Season 3, next two-thirds. He played 90s, loads in the 80's a few about 75 (and remember we were trying to blood Manset and give Church minutes)

His "full games" (as I see it), 75-90 minutes total 18 plus 3 games around 65 minutes


That's 21 out of the 36 games RFC played after he started to genuinely come back (QPR away, sub etc)... as I see it he was first choice
and it was the manager who said Hunt-Long was a fabulous combination getting better than a goal a game average.

I don't remember the specifics, but in there were "normal" injuries, too.

[Hoop Blah]

So you're trying to say he's only been in consideration for a full 90 less than 30 times? Those games in this bit

but has had three decent runs where he played longer stints

73-90-90-90-69-65-90-58-10-65-86-80
OUT
67-80-90-86-87-87-75
OUT
36-69-65-77-12-84-90-75

Whichever way you look at it he's been injured, unavailable or taken off for the majority of his Reading career. That doesn't make him a bad player, and that's not what I'm saying, but it does mean that he probably isn't the most resilient physically (similar to Kitson who was always a little fragile). Compare that to Long who's played a hell of a lot more and taken a hell of a pounding this season without having to miss games or be rested. That's the kind of resilient player you want to lead your attack.

[Terminal Boardom]

Near on every game in 05/06, Little and Convey were subbed and replaced by SHunt and Oster for the last 20 minutes or so. Was this because Little and Convey were knackered? Was it because they were crap?

[Vision]

I think a little too much is being made of this 90 minute thing.

I would imagine that when 2 strikers start a game its not unusual that they dont both finish it. Given that not only is Long our major goal threat but also defensively our best set piece defender (amongst the strikers) then whether we're chasing a goal or protecting a lead then its less likely he's going to be sacrificed whatever the game situation.

With a proper pre-season under his belt (and this would be his first in 4 years) I just dont think fitness will be that much of an issue. I think its whether he has the game in general to be a main striker thats in question? I think the same applies to Mansett as well to a certain extent. No disrespect to Hereford but I would imagine that the pre-season regime he'll be under here will be far more advanced and beneficial to preparing him for the rigours of a 46 game season (or even being able to perform for more than 20 mins without blowing out of his arse).

[Hoop Blah]

Near on every game in 05/06, Little and Convey were subbed and replaced by SHunt and Oster for the last 20 minutes or so. Was this because Little and Convey were knackered? Was it because they were crap?

It's obviously very hard to say. Which is why I'd vary rarely trust any stat to tell me anywhere near the full picture.

It is potentially interesting to compare how much time Hunt spends on the pitch though, especially when you take into account what your eyes would probably tell you when you watch him. He often runs himself into the ground and often picks up little niggles.

As much as I agree that a good pre-season will help Manset as well as Hunt, I don't expect the situation to improve that greatly.

[DOYLERSAROYALER]

Playmaker Howard has had mixed reviews from his two seasons with Reading.

However, he has a decent record and last season he chipped in with seven assists in all competitions.

In comparison, he is just one behind Jobi McAnuff who played 47 times.

Striker Shane Long claimed 10 assists from his 52 games


...maybe a midfield rethink .......

[Vision]

Near on every game in 05/06, Little and Convey were subbed and replaced by SHunt and Oster for the last 20 minutes or so. Was this because Little and Convey were knackered? Was it because they were crap?

It's obviously very hard to say. Which is why I'd vary rarely trust any stat to tell me anywhere near the full picture.

It is potentially interesting to compare how much time Hunt spends on the pitch though, especially when you take into account what your eyes would probably tell you when you watch him. He often runs himself into the ground and often picks up little niggles.

As much as I agree that a good pre-season will help Manset as well as Hunt, I don't expect the situation to improve that greatly.

To be fair there's barely a game goes by without Long going down, hobbling or taking a knock but ultimately he's still able to play the full game and be available next time. Hunt's injury history may mean McDermott thinks he needs to be managed a bit more carefully but it doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't handle it.

I think Manset came to us looking exactly like players look when they've just returned to training after the summer break. I think its right to question the attitude of a professional player who is in that sort of shape halfway through a season but then he's relatively new to the game over here and probably hasn't quite got into the whole routine. One thing's for sure he wont last long here unless he does buckle down on the fitness front. We're pretty renowned for our attention to that side of the game so I do think it will make a big difference if he follows the targets set for him.

Of course whether he will actually be good enough on the ability front still remains to be seen.

[dontbedaft]

Hmm. Am I the only one wondering whether we should not take it for granted that HRK will accept the contract offered to him? Losing both him and Kebe does not seem inconceivable to me...

[brendywendy]

Near on every game in 05/06, Little and Convey were subbed and replaced by SHunt and Oster for the last 20 minutes or so. Was this because Little and Convey were knackered? Was it because they were crap?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6

[Extended-Phenotype]

While Legs and Jem make a tough midfield, neither seem to have any genuine creativity and what worries me is that any new forward (be they a new signing, or little chap stepping out of the shadows at Madge Towers) is going to struggle to find their confidence with a low level of supply; especially if we lose our wingers too.

Personally, I’d look to sign an attacking midfielder to sit in front of Legs and Jem, and look at a 4-5-1 formation next season – maybe this will give a new striker something to feed off. I appreciate that a strike partner is often the tipple of choice for a wobbly forward, but what confidence would you get from our crop? Manset has a stroke after 5 minutes light jogging, Hunt may as well play in a body cast, and Church couldn’t be more offside if he sat down in the opposition goal and had a oxf*rd picnic.

Supposedly his touch is “great”, but I find that harder to swallow than a blood sample from George Michael. I’m not saying George definitely has owt wrong with him, nor can I work out what scenario would require swigging his vital fluids; the point is you’d hold that mouthful for a long time, right? I guess this clumsy, over elaborate metaphor is at least successful in being accurate if nothing else.

Anyway, I think an attacking 3 of Hunt wide, Manset through the middle and HRK would be a stronger option if we could pick up a decent AM to sit behind them.

[CayeneMatt]

Supposedly his touch is “great”, but I find that harder to swallow than a blood sample from George Michael. I’m not saying George definitely has owt wrong with him, nor can I work out what scenario would require swigging his vital fluids; the point is you’d hold that mouthful for a long time, right? I guess this clumsy, over elaborate metaphor is at least successful in being accurate if nothing else.

.

Friday Lunchtime pint?

Agree with your initial comments re: Manset so not sure why you think he would fit going through the middle. I'd perservere with Church who's touch and fitness is far better than Mansets (at the moment).

[bassavage]

Playmaker Howard has had mixed reviews from his two seasons with Reading.

However, he has a decent record and last season he chipped in with seven assists in all competitions.

In comparison, he is just one behind Jobi McAnuff who played 47 times.

Striker Shane Long claimed 10 assists from his 52 games


...maybe a midfield rethink .......

I would start Howard, especially away from home. Watching a couple of games at the back end of this season (Leeds and Coventry away), I think Karacan and Leigertwood are very good at what they do, but neither have enough of a creative spark. The major problem was when Kebe wasn't playing, because he is so fast that we didn't have anyone who could link the midfield and attack together. Plus when we do play away, McDermott likes to drop Hunt behind Long. Why can't Howard do that? It's a formation we're pretty familar with and I just think it gives us more stability defending and makes us better on the counter attack.

[Ian Royal]

While Legs and Jem make a tough midfield, neither seem to have any genuine creativity and what worries me is that any new forward (be they a new signing, or little chap stepping out of the shadows at Madge Towers) is going to struggle to find their confidence with a low level of supply; especially if we lose our wingers too.

Personally, I’d look to sign an attacking midfielder to sit in front of Legs and Jem, and look at a 4-5-1 formation next season – maybe this will give a new striker something to feed off. I appreciate that a strike partner is often the tipple of choice for a wobbly forward, but what confidence would you get from our crop? Manset has a stroke after 5 minutes light jogging, Hunt may as well play in a body cast, and Church couldn’t be more offside if he sat down in the opposition goal and had a oxf*rd picnic.

Supposedly his touch is “great”, but I find that harder to swallow than a blood sample from George Michael. I’m not saying George definitely has owt wrong with him, nor can I work out what scenario would require swigging his vital fluids; the point is you’d hold that mouthful for a long time, right? I guess this clumsy, over elaborate metaphor is at least successful in being accurate if nothing else.

Anyway, I think an attacking 3 of Hunt wide, Manset through the middle and HRK would be a stronger option if we could pick up a decent AM to sit behind them.

You post some good stuff, even if I disagree with a fair bit. It's considered and reasoned.

I agree one upfront would be a good option to look at (assuming Long goes) if we can find a creative midfielder who can score goals to drop in that hole. If we can't I think it's essential we find more attacking full backs to overlap.

We need to be able to vary our attacking threat more, so it's not just a case of double up on Jimmy and Jobi, and nudge lumps out of the target man to easily blunt us.

[Snowball]

Playmaker Howard has had mixed reviews from his two seasons with Reading.

However, he has a decent record and last season he chipped in with seven assists in all competitions.

In comparison, he is just one behind Jobi McAnuff who played 47 times.

Striker Shane Long claimed 10 assists from his 52 games


...maybe a midfield rethink .......

I would start Howard, especially away from home. Watching a couple of games at the back end of this season (Leeds and Coventry away), I think Karacan and Leigertwood are very good at what they do, but neither have enough of a creative spark. The major problem was when Kebe wasn't playing, because he is so fast that we didn't have anyone who could link the midfield and attack together. Plus when we do play away, McDermott likes to drop Hunt behind Long. Why can't Howard do that? It's a formation we're pretty familar with and I just think it gives us more stability defending and makes us better on the counter attack.

(a) He doesn't win enough tackles.
(b) He doesn't win headers
(c) He doesn't score goals
(d) He's no use if we switch to 442 chasing the game.

Hunt deep is "OK", he takes a lot of weight off Long, gets tackles in, gets headers in, is a goal-threat

[Snowball]

While Legs and Jem make a tough midfield, neither seem to have any genuine creativity and what worries me is that any new forward (be they a new signing, or little chap stepping out of the shadows at Madge Towers) is going to struggle to find their confidence with a low level of supply; especially if we lose our wingers too.

Personally, I’d look to sign an attacking midfielder to sit in front of Legs and Jem, and look at a 4-5-1 formation next season – maybe this will give a new striker something to feed off. I appreciate that a strike partner is often the tipple of choice for a wobbly forward, but what confidence would you get from our crop? Manset has a stroke after 5 minutes light jogging, Hunt may as well play in a body cast, and Church couldn’t be more offside if he sat down in the opposition goal and had a oxf*rd picnic.

Supposedly his touch is “great”, but I find that harder to swallow than a blood sample from George Michael. I’m not saying George definitely has owt wrong with him, nor can I work out what scenario would require swigging his vital fluids; the point is you’d hold that mouthful for a long time, right? I guess this clumsy, over elaborate metaphor is at least successful in being accurate if nothing else.

Anyway, I think an attacking 3 of Hunt wide, Manset through the middle and HRK would be a stronger option if we could pick up a decent AM to sit behind them.

Manset has a stroke after 5 minutes light jogging

You keep going on about this. Does it not occur to you that they
will be working on his fitness, and if he can't get fit he'll go?


I could go with 4-3-3, but 451 with only one real attacker is dull IMO