Safe-Standing petition

[roadrunner]

I think some people are thinking back to standing at Elm Park. It wouldn't be like that - it got to the point sometimes there where I dreaded us scoring because I knew me and my kids would be pushed forward with the surge from the back. This wouldn't happen in a "safe" standing area - you couldn't be pushed forwards for a start.

Exactly, and the way ticketing is controlled now means there is no risk of overcrowding and crushes.

It can work, the German's are proof of that, and it is safe. I think it will make a return to English football but it'll take another decade at least.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

The simple and indisputable fact is that if there had been safe standing areas in the Leppings Lane End at Hillsborough on 15th April 1989 then nobody would have died.

Also a fact that if the terracing was full of seats like now then no-one would of died.

Undoubtedly so - but this isn't about "safe seating" areas.

[Ian Royal]

I think some people are thinking back to standing at Elm Park. It wouldn't be like that - it got to the point sometimes there where I dreaded us scoring because I knew me and my kids would be pushed forward with the surge from the back. This wouldn't happen in a "safe" standing area - you couldn't be pushed forwards for a start.

Exactly, and the way ticketing is controlled now means there is no risk of overcrowding and crushes.

It can work, the German's are proof of that, and it is safe. I think it will make a return to English football but it'll take another decade at least.

Agreed... I imagine it would be the likes of Scunny and other lower league clubs getting promoted up the tiers that would take advantage of it first, needing to bring their ground up to spec, and a slightly cheaper way of doing without losing as much capacity and without having to build an entirely new ground... maybe. Although I admit I don't know how easy it would be to convert a terrace into safe standing...

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I think some people are thinking back to standing at Elm Park. It wouldn't be like that - it got to the point sometimes there where I dreaded us scoring because I knew me and my kids would be pushed forward with the surge from the back. This wouldn't happen in a "safe" standing area - you couldn't be pushed forwards for a start.

Why didn't you just move to a different part of the terrace?

There were no surges on the tilehurst end half.

[Royal Lady]

I've stood to the right (as you look at the ground), in the middle and to the left and I've been squashed by hairy arsed supporters more times than I care to remember.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

That Rabidbee gets everywhere.

[TheMaraudingDog]

The simple and indisputable fact is that if there had been safe standing areas in the Leppings Lane End at Hillsborough on 15th April 1989 then nobody would have died.

Bollocks. People died because of the fence. I've been in crushes at modern all seater grounds which pretty much flaws the whole 'safe standing' issue. Just build big terraces with no fences at the front and no problem.

[Jerry St Clair]

Bollocks. People died because of the fence. I've been in crushes at modern all seater grounds which pretty much flaws the whole 'safe standing' issue. Just build big terraces with no fences at the front and no problem.

Like the one at Burnden Park when more than 60 people died? Or Ibrox?

[TheMaraudingDog]

There's been crises in seated section, quite a few in Africa leading to deaths.

It's all about crowd behaviour and control, the build of the stadium is pretty irrelevant.

[Svlad Cjelli]

The simple and indisputable fact is that if there had been safe standing areas in the Leppings Lane End at Hillsborough on 15th April 1989 then nobody would have died.

Bollocks. People died because of the fence. I've been in crushes at modern all seater grounds which pretty much flaws the whole 'safe standing' issue. Just build big terraces with no fences at the front and no problem.

Eh? I'm saying one thing and you're giving another option that I do agree with - but it doesn't actually disagree with what I said in the first place.

[Mr Angry]

Is this a Reading FC Policy??

If not, shouldn't it be in the STAR or General Football section?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Bollocks. People died because of the fence. I've been in crushes at modern all seater grounds which pretty much flaws the whole 'safe standing' issue. Just build big terraces with no fences at the front and no problem.

Like the one at Burnden Park when more than 60 people died? Or Ibrox?

People died at Burnden Park because it was overfilled and the corner where people died lacked any crush barriers.

I'm not sure which Ibrox disaster you mean, but one happended outside the ground, and the other was caused by by wooden terracing collapsing. I don't see how either is relevant.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Wasn't one Ibrox disaster due to fans being funnelled down one staircase?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Wasn't one Ibrox disaster due to fans being funnelled down one staircase?

It was one long staircase to get out of the ground. It was really to do with the design of long staircases. It had nothing to do with terracing. Exactly the same problem could just as easily have happened in a seated area.


the upshot of that, obviously, wasn't "staircases are dangerous, so we must ban them". People looked at what caused the danger and took steps to make sure such an event couldn't happen again (apart from about a month when the Madejski first opened and we had our own lethal stairway)

[Jerry St Clair]

I was trying to rebutt TMDs "bollocks, it was the fences comment". There were no fences at Burnden Park, yet people still got crushed on a terrace.

And safe-standing is not just about the bit in the ground where you watch the match from. It includes controlled entry and exit, which includes stairways outside the ground. Ibrox did not have perimeter fences in 1971, yet people still died leaving the terrace.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

It still boils down to a need to look at what caused a disaster rather than make knee-jerk overreactions.

Fences and overcrowding were the cause of Hillsborough, not standing.

[Red]

Don't disagree, but to turn it round Hillsborough couldn't have happened in an all seater stadium.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Hillsborough couldn't have happened if no-one had been allowed into the ground. Is that an argument for playing all matches behind closed doors?

[Jerry St Clair]

Don't disagree, but to turn it round Hillsborough couldn't have happened in an all seater stadium.

No. Remember, the gates were opened because crushing was already occurring in Leppings Lane. Several fans had broken limbs in the crush outside.

The crushing outside occurred because of poor crowd management, and inadequate numbers of functioning turnstiles. There were 7 for 10,000 people of which two weren't working properly processing a much lower than expected flow rate. Compare this to, say, the South Bank which had 10 turnstiles for just over 5000 people - and even that would get very congested on a big game.

So, there were very many factors which came together to cause Hillsborough. To say it wouldn't have happened with seats and without fences is a falsehood.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Don't forget appalling signage at Hillsborough which meant the vast majority of supporters went down the central tunnel - if they'd gone down the others there'd have been no disaster.

A catalogue of complete and utter cock-ups!