Long - time for a change?

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Wimb
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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Wimb » 08 Mar 2011 08:56

Snowball
Yes, but it was rather helped by being our only penalty taker
and taking all the free-kicks, too...

The old should-be-put-down Ian H would now be on 12/13 if he'd taken all our pens (+ 2 for Carlisle)



And Long would be on about 12 if you took away the pens would he not :|

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Ian Royal » 08 Mar 2011 12:47

good penalty taker gets more goals shocker. :shock:

Doyle didn't tend to take that many penalties in his high scoring seasons for us did he? Presumably that makes him the best scorer.

Still think Kitson is the daddy for his allround play and superbly consistent scoring record. Bar the season he was injured for most of it which is understandable.

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Jeffers217 » 08 Mar 2011 12:52

Ian Royal good penalty taker gets more goals shocker. :shock:

Doyle didn't tend to take that many penalties in his high scoring seasons for us did he? Presumably that makes him the best scorer.

Still think Kitson is the daddy for his allround play and superbly consistent scoring record. Bar the season he was injured for most of it which is understandable.


By far at this level Kitson wins for his all-round play. Consistently over a few seasons too. Long will have to keep this up for the next 2 seasons if he's to be on the same level

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2011 13:27

Wimb
Snowball
Yes, but it was rather helped by being our only penalty taker
and taking all the free-kicks, too...

The old should-be-put-down Ian H would now be on 12/13 if he'd taken all our pens (+ 2 for Carlisle)



And Long would be on about 12 if you took away the pens would he not :|



19-5 is?

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2011 13:29

Ian Royal good penalty taker gets more goals shocker. :shock:

Doyle didn't tend to take that many penalties in his high scoring seasons for us did he? Presumably that makes him the best scorer.



Doesn't that depend on what happens in the next 12+ games?

Currently Long is on 19, Doyle's best was 18. Long might finish on 25+ yet!


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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Wycombe Royal » 08 Mar 2011 13:29

Snowball
Ian Royal good penalty taker gets more goals shocker. :shock:

Doyle didn't tend to take that many penalties in his high scoring seasons for us did he? Presumably that makes him the best scorer.



Doesn't that depend on what happens in the next 12+ games?

Currently Long is on 19, Doyle's best was 18. Long might finish on 25+ yet!

And lets hope he does......

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2011 13:42

Jeffers217
Ian Royal good penalty taker gets more goals shocker. :shock:

Doyle didn't tend to take that many penalties in his high scoring seasons for us did he? Presumably that makes him the best scorer.

Still think Kitson is the daddy for his allround play and superbly consistent scoring record. Bar the season he was injured for most of it which is understandable.


By far at this level Kitson wins for his all-round play. Consistently over a few seasons too. Long will have to keep this up for the next 2 seasons if he's to be on the same level



Kitson

10 (07)
38 (00)
32 (07)
12 (05)
29 (07)
09 (01)

130 (27) = 134.5 = 56 Goals = 2.41 Games/Goal

05 (10)
12 (12)
10 (22)
15 (26)
24 (12)
37 (01)


103 (83) = 114.8 = 48 Goals (2.39 Games/Goal)

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by KC Royal » 08 Mar 2011 17:08

Snowball
Wimb
Snowball
Yes, but it was rather helped by being our only penalty taker
and taking all the free-kicks, too...

The old should-be-put-down Ian H would now be on 12/13 if he'd taken all our pens (+ 2 for Carlisle)



And Long would be on about 12 if you took away the pens would he not :|



19-5 is?


The point still stands though! He actually said what i had in mind myself. You can't knock Sig's goal tally for including pens and ignore it for Long, it works both ways! And personally i think scoring free-kicks is an art, an art that only Sigurdsson, Harte and Caskey have managed in my time as a fan. Its not like Sigurdsson scored free-kicks every time he took them either, though im willing to be proved wrong on that.

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Ian Royal » 08 Mar 2011 17:15

Shorey had the fk skill as well.


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Re: Long - time for a change?

by KC Royal » 08 Mar 2011 17:20

Ian Royal Shorey had the fk skill as well.

:oops:

Knew i would miss someone!

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2011 18:27

KC Royal The point still stands though! He actually said what i had in mind myself. You can't knock Sig's goal tally for including pens and ignore it for Long, it works both ways! And personally i think scoring free-kicks is an art, an art that only Sigurdsson, Harte and Caskey have managed in my time as a fan. Its not like Sigurdsson scored free-kicks every time he took them either, though im willing to be proved wrong on that.


Not "overlooking" anything


Just very interesting that so many LOVE to mention LONG's penalties (detracting from his goals)
and yet fail to mention Siggy's, when I think Siggy had eight that season.


The point is Siggy scored some excellent open-play goals but a very high proportion
of his goals were penalties and free-kicks. His total shots were more than all our
strikers combined, hence 20 goals but a terrible conversion rate.

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Hoop Blah » 08 Mar 2011 18:47

I think that's all in your head Snowball.

I'm pretty sure most of the people who point out Longs penalty contribution also do the same with Sigurdssons. What you're probably doing confusing one person posting on the forum with a whole host of others! It's a consideration though IF you want to quantify a players ability through the number of goals they score.

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Ian Royal » 08 Mar 2011 19:41

Hoop Blah I think that's all in your head Snowball.

I'm pretty sure most of the people who point out Longs penalty contribution also do the same with Sigurdssons. What you're probably doing confusing one person posting on the forum with a whole host of others! It's a consideration though IF you want to quantify a players ability through the number of goals they score.


Long's penalty record was only brought up iirc when it was to highlight that all (or most) his goals were penalties and that he wasn't scoring enough, particularly in open play. I think Long's fairly emphatically answered that criticism personally and talk of penalties is now pretty redundant.


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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2011 22:31

For RFC


Kitson

10 (07)
38 (00)
32 (07)
12 (05)
29 (07)
09 (01)

130 (27) = 134.5 = 56 Goals = 2.41 Games/Goal



LONG

05 (10)
12 (12)
10 (22)
15 (26)
24 (12)
38 (01)


104 (83) = 115.8 = 49 Goals (2.36 Games/Goal)


Shane has now closed to within 6 goals of Doyle, 7 of Kitson

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2011 22:33

Shane is now competing with the top RFC goal-scorers since 2002-03

2005-06 22 Dave Kitson
2010-11 20 Shane Long (still at least 11 more games to play)
2009-10 20 Gylfi Siggurdson
2005-06 19 Kevin Doyle
2004-05 19 Dave Kitson
2008-09 18 Kevin Doyle
2002-03 16 Nicky Forster
2005-06 15 Leroy Lita
2003-04 14 Shaun Goater
2006-07 14 Leroy Lita
2006-07 13 Kevin Doyle
2003-04 11 Nicky Forster
2007-08 10 Dave Kitson

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by T.R.O.L.I. » 08 Mar 2011 22:35

Just out of interest (as I can't be arsed to trawl back through the thread):

1. Why only go back to 2002/03?

2. What "weighting" have you given to the sub appearances? 15 mins? 20 mins?

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2011 22:45

T.R.O.L.I. Just out of interest (as I can't be arsed to trawl back through the thread):

1. Why only go back to 2002/03?


.



Because I can get the figures off the OS. They don't go back further



2. What "weighting" have you given to the sub appearances? 15 mins? 20 mins?


When guesstimating minutes I've presumed starts as 90 minutes
and sub appearances as 15 minutes average

Shane's ACTUAL minutes are 10,206. The Rule of Thumb predicts 10,815 so makes him look worse than he actually is. 609/10206 is a 5.9% error, probably because he has had such a high percentage of sub appearances.

With Doyle I was able to get actual minutes but it would take too long to trawl to get Kitson's.

No need anyway as Shane is gonna pass them both.

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by T.R.O.L.I. » 08 Mar 2011 22:50

Snowball
T.R.O.L.I. Just out of interest (as I can't be arsed to trawl back through the thread):

1. Why only go back to 2002/03?


.



Because I can get the figures off the OS. They don't go back further



2. What "weighting" have you given to the sub appearances? 15 mins? 20 mins?


When guesstimating minutes I've presumed starts as 90 minutes
and sub appearances as 15 minutes average


Fair enough - just wondering. Strap should be able to help you with the older data but FTR re 1) - I think a certain Mr Caskey scored 30-odd goals in 2000/01 (I think that's the correct season).

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by Ian Royal » 08 Mar 2011 22:54

Thought Caskey was 22 TROLI, could easily be wrong though.

Curo got about 36 around 2002.. Butler 20+?


Edit: 23 in 99/00 for Caskey
30 in 00/01 for Cureton
28 in 00/01 for Butler
Last edited by Ian Royal on 08 Mar 2011 22:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Long - time for a change?

by T.R.O.L.I. » 08 Mar 2011 22:56

Ian Royal Thought Caskey was 22 TROLI, could easily be wrong though.

Curo got about 36 around 2002.. Butler 20+?


Possibly - could be the mind playing tricks. Soccerbase is now a nightmare to navigate so I'm going on a very sketchy memory.

Where's Strap when you need him?!?!?

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