Shane Long

[Snowball]

Of course, but he IS credited with an assist for Kebe's goal, and they are official stats.

Again, this is where the eyes are more trustworthy than the stats. That wasn't a Long assist.

The radio had it as a Matejovsky chip headed on by Long to Kebe.

I actually can't remember. I just saw Kebe free!

But the club web-site has now added 1 assist to Shane's figures.

So I guess, the club and the radio are wrong, then?

[CMRoyal]

Of course, but he IS credited with an assist for Kebe's goal, and they are official stats.

Again, this is where the eyes are more trustworthy than the stats. That wasn't a Long assist.

The radio had it as a Matejovsky chip headed on by Long to Kebe.

I actually can't remember. I just saw Kebe free!

But the club web-site has now added 1 assist to Shane's figures.

So I guess, the club and the radio are wrong, then?

Yes they are, not that it matters that much. In fact, I'm kind of glad he gets a stat that reflects his overall contribution to the game.

[Snowball]

Saturday was a good example of how stats can be misleading. Shane Long had a good game on Saturday, one of our better players. Yet the stats will simply show he didn't score. As no player's sole responsibility is to score goals, they should be seen as part of the picture but not the full picture.

Yes, I couldn't help but think of the irony of how bald stats might make Shane look worse after Saturday, when in fact he did his claims a power of good by and large.

Only if CRUDE stats are applied.

Stats like Pro-Zone would list total distance run, total passes, percentage passes successful, KEY passes, tackles attempted and tackles won, times caught in possession, chances made, free kicks or penalties won, as well as headers/shots and goals

[CMRoyal]

Saturday was a good example of how stats can be misleading. Shane Long had a good game on Saturday, one of our better players. Yet the stats will simply show he didn't score. As no player's sole responsibility is to score goals, they should be seen as part of the picture but not the full picture.

Yes, I couldn't help but think of the irony of how bald stats might make Shane look worse after Saturday, when in fact he did his claims a power of good by and large.

Only if CRUDE stats are applied.

Stats like Pro-Zone would list total distance run, total passes, percentage passes successful, KEY passes, tackles attempted and tackles won, times caught in possession, chances made, free kicks or penalties won, as well as headers/shots and goals

Absolutely agree - I guess I had your (arguably simplistic) goals-per-minute/games/starts stats in mind when I wrote that!

[Snowball]

Yes (the club and radio are wrong), not that it matters that much. In fact, I'm kind of glad he gets a stat that reflects his overall contribution to the game.

I don't know you, CM, or know what view you had, or know your eyesight
and I just cannot remember the moments leading up to Kebe's shot and goal

But I can't think of any obvious reason why I should believe you over the radio professionals and the official club view.

Not saying you are wrong. Just applying common sense

[Snowball]

Absolutely agree - I guess I had your (arguably simplistic) goals-per-minute/games/starts stats in mind when I wrote that!

Yeah, well, we can only work with what we've got. Doyle, for example, very good striker but does masses of other work too. Some strikers don't

[Woodcote Royal]

LOL at bringing in competition for our best left back in my time? at the time he was playing very well, amnd the competition would realistically have been facing a long sit on the benchfrom his past experiences with the player coppell was expecting a sidwell type reaction from him, and instead he got shit
lesson learned-not everyone will behave professionally in that situation, whether delibeately or through subconcious disapointment

Shorey acted, and performed, like a spoilt child for all of our relegation season and every time Stretch takes the field Reading fans should be reminded of the biggest deficiency of all that led to our relegation.........................a left back that gave more than 2 sh*ts for his team.

This act alone was not only TOTALLY indefencible on Coppell's part but should have led to serious questions being asked before he was kept on for this season.

[Snowball]

Stats can be misleading but then so can the eye in terms of how you interpret something over a period of time. I will allways form a visual opinion first and foremost but occasionally I'll see some stats that make me think twice and possibly reconsider.
Snowball, in that respect your stats are a useful logic check so keep them coming

I go to games with my son and it's quite funny how, after the game, one or both of us will have completely forgotten a coupla shots, or some saves, or two brill tackles.


Federici didn't make a save all game

Apart from that one in the top corner he put round the post

Apart from that.

And the volley he pushed over the bar

And that

And the double-save he made from Johnson

Apart from those four.

And the swirling free-kick, how did he get to that?



That sort of thing. Like "What did the Romans ever do for us?"

[CMRoyal]

I don't know you, CM, or know what view you had, or know your eyesight
and I just cannot remember the moments leading up to Kebe's shot and goal

But I can't think of any obvious reason why I should believe you over the radio professionals and the official club view.

Not saying you are wrong. Just applying common sense

Fairy nuff, I'd do the same if I were in your position. But I saw a replay of the goal on TV and I'm convinced Shane didn't get a touch. Again, not that it matters - he was there causing problems which allowed Kebe to get some space, so hats off to him for that.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

LOL at bringing in competition for our best left back in my time? at the time he was playing very well, amnd the competition would realistically have been facing a long sit on the benchfrom his past experiences with the player coppell was expecting a sidwell type reaction from him, and instead he got shit
lesson learned-not everyone will behave professionally in that situation, whether delibeately or through subconcious disapointment

Shorey acted, and performed, like a spoilt child for all of our relegation season and every time Stretch takes the field Reading fans should be reminded of the biggest deficiency of all that led to our relegation.........................a left back that gave more than 2 sh*ts for his team.

This act alone was not only TOTALLY indefencible on Coppell's part but should have led to serious questions being asked before he was kept on for this season.

WR, let me offer another Shorey view. I'll be interested in your (and other) opinions. My view is not so much that Shorey didn't put it in during 07/08 but that his weaknesses were cruelly exposed. Namely, that he lacks pace and physical presence. For most of Shorey's time at RFC we had been on the front foot which put the emphasis on the attcking full back element of his game, something at which he excels. For the first time, 07/08 put the emphasis on his defending and here he comes up short. No pun intended
The most glaring example of lack of pace came when Utaka screamed by him for the second Pompey goal at Mad Stad and I'm convinced his England career ended there and then as Capello was watching. He also defended the back post area in a less than stellar manner on many occasions.
It is interesting now that he cannot get a game for Villa and I'd love to know the reasons for O Neill not picking him. My own belief is that it is the same defensive frailties then see a RB (Young) being picked ahead of him at LB.
Interestingly, Stretch (my P.O.Y by a mile by the way) also lacks raw pace so how will he get on if we go up ? It would be a worry but he defends the back post far better than NS so he might be okay. Let's hope we get the chance to see

[Woodcote Royal]

No, I don't accept it for a second.

It's Coppell's "I'm happy with what I've got" and "I wouldn't swap my squad for any other in this league" mentality that has continually led to weaknesses in our squad.

Does anyone really believe that, had our manager wanted some competition for Shorey last season, that the Chairman would have turned him down?

It's well documented that there was money on the table that Coppell chose not to spend and look how much Armstrong cost when he finally arrived

Coppell has also gone on record as saying that the Chairman has never turned him down.

Coppell apologists are too prone to blame the Chairman in this respect when all the evidence points to the contrary.

Not bringing in an alternative to Shorey (no back up) has nothing to do with not bringing in a striker in January when we already had 6 (SIX) on the books.

The number of strikers "on our books" is meaningless in comparison to how many are good enough to make valid contributions in our quest for promotion back to the richest league in the world.....................which is 3.

If we can sign Glen Little (presumably paying a large slice of his Premiership wage in the process) we could have plumbed the depths of other Prem squads for the variation we need up front.

Furthermore, if Coppell failed to do this thanks to showing too much faith in Lita, it's yet another case of our managers greatest weakness threatening to cost us very dearly once more.

[Snowball]

Stretch (my P.O.Y by a mile by the way) also lacks raw pace so how will he get on if we go up ? It would be a worry but he defends the back post far better than NS so he might be okay. Let's hope we get the chance to see

Fantastic buy, brilliant by the Reading management (and how much did we fancy this "old crock who can't get in the Sheffield United team"?

I agree, he's my man of the season so far.

[Negative_Jeff]

I like Shane Long because he is unorthodox. This sometimes leads to poor decision making, and Stan Bowles would laugh at his first touch, but with the benefit of a weighted pass his pace genuinely worries defenders. Good in the air as well.
Like A.P. I think he would have benefited from being loaned out two seasons ago.

[Hoop Blah]

I don't know you, CM, or know what view you had, or know your eyesight
and I just cannot remember the moments leading up to Kebe's shot and goal

But I can't think of any obvious reason why I should believe you over the radio professionals and the official club view.

Not saying you are wrong. Just applying common sense

Is that the same radio that one of commentators admiting to getting Duberry and Gunarsson mixed up the other week?

I'm sure the club stats for the website are only done from the media team, they probably take a lot of them from their own match reports and the radio so I don't think they're that scientific of fall proof.

[Snowball]

I like Shane Long because he is unorthodox. This sometimes leads to poor decision making, and Stan Bowles would laugh at his first touch, but with the benefit of a weighted pass his pace genuinely worries defenders. Good in the air as well.
Like A.P. I think he would have benefited from being loaned out two seasons ago.

Stan Bowles! My all time hero, way back (for Carlisle at first as my first Mrs was from there)

[Maguire]

I don't think Shane touched the ball that led to Kebe's goal either, but it really doesn't matter. Challenging for it took out that defender and let Kebe in so it's all good.

[Snowball]

I don't think Shane touched the ball that led to Kebe's goal either, but it really doesn't matter. Challenging for it took out that defender and let Kebe in so it's all good.

YUP like Noel's part in the Wolves OG

[Negative_Jeff]

I like Shane Long because he is unorthodox. This sometimes leads to poor decision making, and Stan Bowles would laugh at his first touch, but with the benefit of a weighted pass his pace genuinely worries defenders. Good in the air as well.
Like A.P. I think he would have benefited from being loaned out two seasons ago.

Stan Bowles! My all time hero, way back (for Carlisle at first as my first Mrs was from there)

I saw Stan Bowles play for Carlisle at QPR. Rangers may have won 3-0 that day but they couldn`t get the ball off the mercurial Bowles. As I recall the Rangers chairman Jim Gregory decided to buy him there and then.

[Tilehurst End]

I don't think Shane touched the ball that led to Kebe's goal either, but it really doesn't matter. Challenging for it took out that defender and let Kebe in so it's all good.

Most pleasing thing was that Kebe was actually anticipating a flick on which is not always the case with our strikers/midfielders.

[Woodcote Royal]

WR, let me offer another Shorey view. I'll be interested in your (and other) opinions. My view is not so much that Shorey didn't put it in during 07/08 but that his weaknesses were cruelly exposed. Namely, that he lacks pace and physical presence. For most of Shorey's time at RFC we had been on the front foot which put the emphasis on the attcking full back element of his game, something at which he excels. For the first time, 07/08 put the emphasis on his defending and here he comes up short. No pun intended
The most glaring example of lack of pace came when Utaka screamed by him for the second Pompey goal at Mad Stad and I'm convinced his England career ended there and then as Capello was watching. He also defended the back post area in a less than stellar manner on many occasions.
It is interesting now that he cannot get a game for Villa and I'd love to know the reasons for O Neill not picking him. My own belief is that it is the same defensive frailties then see a RB (Young) being picked ahead of him at LB.
Interestingly, Stretch (my P.O.Y by a mile by the way) also lacks raw pace so how will he get on if we go up ? It would be a worry but he defends the back post far better than NS so he might be okay. Let's hope we get the chance to see

As you will know, I have not always been Shorey's greatest fan (more later) but this didn't stop me voting for him as Player Of The Season for 2006-7 which Glen Little won.

After 7? years at the Mad Stad, Reading fans who were capable of looking at Shorey with a critical eye (as opposed to those who never game him less than 7 out of 10 for any match he played ) will know his strengths and weaknesses inside out.

No pace and no right foot, plus an annoying habit of aimless hoofing up the channels when not at his best, covers the weaknesses.

A solid defender, even against the best the Prem have to offer at his best and an excellent left foot for crosses and set pieces, are his strengths.

Whist I would agree that us playing on the front foot with confidence can only have helped him gain deserved England recognition, it doesn't even come close to justifying the huge dip in form he suffered the following season........................for which I offer an alternative.

Nicky Shorey was totally spoilt throughout his time with us. He never had to fight for his place because we couldn't afford 2 left backs, so he regularly went through the motions knowing that he would play next week regardless.

This, of course, was not how doting fans in the East Stand saw things..................they were too busy taking the p*ss out of Andy Hughes and just sticking an "8" alongside "Shores" name at the end of every match.

However, what we got in 2006-7 was the real Nicky Shorey. Spellbound, like the rest of the rest of the squad enjoying it's first season in the Prem, our left back gave 110% and thoroughly deserved his England call-up when better players were injured. Despite his shortcomings, Shorey was Englands No3 left back that season.

Sadly, once his head had been turned by West Ham, we got the old Nicky back who went through the motions until he finally got the move he wanted.

Now, I would agree that his limitations have been exposed in the top 4 side assembled by Martin O'Niell who, I strongly suspect, new all along that NS would not feature in his first 11 once others returned from injury/he had finished rebuilding.

It was obvious to anyone who didn't think the sun shone out of Nicky's backside that he wasn't interested last season and it beggars belief that, even this season Coppell was hanging on to the forlorn hope that Shorey would stay.

Having to start Hunt at left back and become one of the few sides to lose to Charlton was the up shot of this totally misplaced loyalty that should have cost Coppell his job.