A bit worrying

[Behindu]

For Everton/West Ham/Wigan, the upper west, south end has had rows of empty seats that could accomodate 15-20 people sitting together.

Do you understand the concept of SINGLE SEATS ONLY being available for sale ?

How do you propose to sell seats that are already sold or contractually reserved for sponsors ??

[weybridgewanderer]

I do notice that Schards does fail to reply to some points made against his point of view.

Is this an oversight or does he ignore the ones he hasn't got an answer to?

Could you give some examples?

As Reading is full of us immigrants many many reading fans "grew up" with a different allegiance. I will be in Lyon supporting my other team on Tuesday night and back at the mad stad next saturday.

Nothing wrong with targeting these fans of other teams who will come to a few games. If they like what they see they will come back more and more. they'll start bringing their kids, who won't have the same allegiance to the other team and so we get a enw generation of supporters.

Currently, without the expansion, we cannot actract the "neutrals" and turn them into reading fans.

What's been stopping people bringing neutrals for the past few games?

For the last three, the membership card has been free too.

I can't get neutrals seats together anywhere near me for the league games, they did turn up in there droves at the league cup game.

you also need to be able to get the neutrals into the "higher profile" games before they will come to the less attractive games

[Schards#2]

For Everton/West Ham/Wigan, the upper west, south end has had rows of empty seats that could accomodate 15-20 people sitting together.

Do you understand the concept of SINGLE SEATS ONLY being available for sale ?

How do you propose to sell seats that are already sold or contractually reserved for sponsors ??

So, these seats in the south of the upper west, there have been rows and rows of them empty for some games.

Why will the ticket office not sell two or more of these empty seats together? If that's true, that's a serious failing in the ticket office as it's clear to see all these seats, all together are empty.

If they are set aside for corporate/sponsers, why would all the corporate people turn up for the Derby games but none for the previous three. That seems to stretch the laws of probability somewhat.

Far more probable, I would suggest, is that they are tickets that simply haven't been sold.

[Wycombe Royal]

Far more probable, I would suggest, is that they are tickets that simply haven't been sold.

So now you are suggesting that club are lying when they say only single seats are available and therefore implying the club don't actually want to sell them (or else why would they put off prospective customers who want a few seats together).

You argument gets more laughable every time you make a comment.

[Platypuss]

Each time each one posts, Schards v Woodcote becomes more and more like two bald men fighting over a comb.

[Wycombe Royal]

Each time each one posts, Schards v Woodcote becomes more and more like two bald men fighting over a comb.

I'm trying to drink a cup of tea and now most of it is over my keyboard.

Thanks alot.

[Behindu]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

[Schards#2]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

[Wycombe Royal]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

Try answering other people's points (like they have yours) rather than just pushing more of your own. You have still ignored all my comments - is there a reason for that? You asked me for examples and I gave them - so where is your response?

[Dirk Gently]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

Surely that's obvious. The sponsors, opposition club, league etc (whoever these seats are reserved for) bring people to fill them for some games and not for others.

Like STH not turning up for some games (about 5% on average) just beacuse a seat has no-one sitting in it during the match doesn't mean it is available for resale.

[Schards#2]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

Try answering other people's points (like they have yours) rather than just poushing more of your own. You have still ignored all my comments - is there a reason for that?

Other than your cheap insults, the only point I can see is that you accuse me of accusing the club of "lying". As I haven't, I don't think that warrents a response. If you can think of a quetsion that does warrent a response, I will respond to it.

[Platypuss]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

It might be an idea to actually read what was posted - the answer you are looking for seems to proceed directly from the first point.

That is, if you are actually interested in an answer rather than posting yet another desperate attempt to look clever.

[Schards#2]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

Surely that's obvious. The sponsors, opposition club, league etc (whoever these seats are reserved for) bring people to fill them for some games and not for others.

Like STH not turning up for some games (about 5% on average) just beacuse a seat has no-one sitting in it during the match doesn't mean it is available for resale.

But this didn't happen at single game last year, or at any game that has sold out this year. It only happens when the game is not sold out. Call me simplistic but rows of empty seats that are only there for games that are not sold out suggest to me that these are the very seats that haven't been sold.

[Wycombe Royal]

Other than your cheap insults, the only point I can see is that you accuse me of accusing the club of "lying". As I haven't, I don't think that warrents a response. If you can think of a quetsion that does warrent a response, I will respond to it.

I think you are confusing me with Woodcote. Here are those two comments again, and so as well as answering them can you point out where the cheap insults are?

And as for the accusing the club of lying well what else are you saying? The club have said only single seats are left and you have said there are rows of unsold seats. Someone is wrong.

Another non sell out but close to capacity suggests the size of the stadium is just about perfect.

Just about perfect with no room for growth.

I don't what your business experience is but that is a poor position to be in and signals the businesses intention that it doesn't want to grow anymore if expansion isn't planned and scheduled.

and

Something else that I can't see mentioned is that for most games this season only single seats have been left. This will put off quite a few people who would otherwise have attended as a family or group of friends. Last season this wouldn't have been so much of a problem due to the novelty factor.

[Schards#2]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

It might be an idea to actually read what was posted - the answer you are looking for seems to proceed directly from the first point.

That is, if you are actually interested in an answer rather than posting yet another deperate attempt to look clever.

So perhaps you can explain why these seats were not empty for a single game last season or for any sold out games this season. Possibly without the bitchy comments although I accept that would be unfashionable.

[PieEater]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do..

.

Surely this theory would only make sense if the tickets were all allocated to one source. It's the fact that nobody in the block was there that's surprising.

[Behindu]

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

Schards I'm always calm, although often laughing, when replying to your ramblings

To use your own patronising approach, it's blindingly obvious why the seats may be empty for some games and full for others for several reasons.

1. The sponsors may have told the club they don;t need the seats and they have been sold to the public. In this case they would be TAKEN. Given that every game this season has been virtually sold out for home fans you can see that to have a block of say 50 seats unsold if they were available would be unlikely

2. The sponsors have used the seats. In this case they would be TAKEN. Again, it seems reasonable to suggest that if sponsors have blocks of tickets at every ground (which they do) they probably use all of them at certain grounds on some days and none at other grounds on those days. This would be because for logistical reasons they want to limit the spread of events they have to host.

3. The sponsors have passed their allocation on to worthy causes. In some cases the sponsors seats get passed to groups (wounded servicemen, charities, kids groups etc) Again it would seem likely that they would want to fill the seats.

4. Of course you may also be mistaken. I can;t believe someone who seems to be a fan of the club and pays £550 for a season ticket then spends his time scrutinising the ground to spot spare seats which the club are sneakily failing to either advertise or sell.

Now I've given you a fair set of reasons why these seats may sometimes be used and sometimes not. How about you tell us on what basis you believe the club deliberately lie about ticket availability and deliberately fail to sell tickets.

[Dirk Gently]

The club are obliged to reserve seats for all sorts of people, league sponsors for example (not club sponsors). I believe that the sponsors are supposed to inform the club if they want the seats for each game and if the club know they are not needed they can resell them. If they don;t know, or if they are told they are wanted and then they are not used there is nothing they can do.

It is plain stupid to suggest that the club deliberately deprive themselves of revenue by simply not bothering to sell these seats. Laws of Probability have nothing to do with it. It's just a stupid suggestion. And I have no doubt that when presented with a rational explanation you will prefer to believe some crazy 'conspiracy' theory.

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

Surely that's obvious. The sponsors, opposition club, league etc (whoever these seats are reserved for) bring people to fill them for some games and not for others.

Like STH not turning up for some games (about 5% on average) just beacuse a seat has no-one sitting in it during the match doesn't mean it is available for resale.

But this didn't happen at single game last year, or at any game that has sold out this year. It only happens when the game is not sold out. Call me simplistic but rows of empty seats that are only there for games that are not sold out suggest to me that these are the very seats that haven't been sold.

Perhaps the games that are less attractive to "floating supporters" are the same matches which are less atrractive to sponsors and other such third-parties.

I've not been minutely looking at the attendence figures for each match, but as far as I know these seats have not been available for sale and matches have been selling out of home seats (or virtually selling out - single seats only), so there's either a major cock-up in the Sales Centre which means that these seats aren't being put on sale - or they're not available for sale for some reason.

[Schards#2]

Other than your cheap insults, the only point I can see is that you accuse me of accusing the club of "lying". As I haven't, I don't think that warrents a response. If you can think of a quetsion that does warrent a response, I will respond to it.

I think you are confusing me with Woodcote. Here are those two comments again, and so as well as answering them can you point out where the cheap insults are?

And as for the accusing the club of lying well what else are you saying? The club have said only single seats are left and you have said there are rows of unsold seats. Someone is wrong.

Another non sell out but close to capacity suggests the size of the stadium is just about perfect.

Just about perfect with no room for growth.

I don't what your business experience is but that is a poor position to be in and signals the businesses intention that it doesn't want to grow anymore if expansion isn't planned and scheduled.

and

Something else that I can't see mentioned is that for most games this season only single seats have been left. This will put off quite a few people who would otherwise have attended as a family or group of friends. Last season this wouldn't have been so much of a problem due to the novelty factor.

The answer to your first point is that expanding a business on the strength of one year's exceptional data is a risky thing to do, it would be more prudent to ensure that the level of demand is going to be maintained at the level of last season rather than that being a blip.

The answer to your second point is in my response to Behindu. I find it odd that you can only get single seats in a stadium where rows of empty seats are available.What the reason is for that, I have no idea.

As for the cheap comments, I suggest you read your own posts.

[Schards#2]

When you've calmed down, can you explain why all these seats are empty for some games but are all taken for others, rather than putting words in my mouth about what I have suggested?

Schards I'm always calm, although often laughing, when replying to your ramblings

To use your own patronising approach, it's blindingly obvious why the seats may be empty for some games and full for others for several reasons.

1. The sponsors may have told the club they don;t need the seats and they have been sold to the public. In this case they would be TAKEN. Given that every game this season has been virtually sold out for home fans you can see that to have a block of say 50 seats unsold if they were available would be unlikely

2. The sponsors have used the seats. In this case they would be TAKEN. Again, it seems reasonable to suggest that if sponsors have blocks of tickets at every ground (which they do) they probably use all of them at certain grounds on some days and none at other grounds on those days. This would be because for logistical reasons they want to limit the spread of events they have to host.

3. The sponsors have passed their allocation on to worthy causes. In some cases the sponsors seats get passed to groups (wounded servicemen, charities, kids groups etc) Again it would seem likely that they would want to fill the seats.

4. Of course you may also be mistaken. I can;t believe someone who seems to be a fan of the club and pays £550 for a season ticket then spends his time scrutinising the ground to spot spare seats which the club are sneakily failing to either advertise or sell.

Now I've given you a fair set of reasons why these seats may sometimes be used and sometimes not. How about you tell us on what basis you believe the club deliberately lie about ticket availability and deliberately fail to sell tickets.

Could you point out where I have done that.

Once you've done that, could you explain why this phenomenon of rows of empty seats didn't occur at single game last season, or at game sold out this season, only at games where, coincidentally, the game hasn't sold out?

And once you've done that, presumably corporate tickets that have been sold would be included in the attendance whether used or unused so how come the gates when this happened are lower? Another coincidence?

You assertion that you are calm would have held more water if you hadn't referred to my post as "patronising". Why can none of you (with the exception Dirk) discuss a simple matter like this without reverting to personal insults?

If it upsets you so much, you're under no obligation to reply whatsoever.