Would you pay extra to stand at matches?

[Coppelled Streets]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5yHbDAz2Sc

Good video, cheers.

But having just watched this, and it's left a real lump in my throat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsl_mqt-xiA We have to get this right if we're going to have standing again!
Seeing those pictures again when people were being crushed, laying dead on the pitch, fellow supporters trying their best to lift fans up to the top tier. That really got me! Maybe because I'm older now and was only 9 at the time and couldn't fully appreciate what happened.
I also didn't know that Steven Gerrard's cousin was the youngest to die in the Hillsborough disaster. Not that that makes a difference to many, but it's still sad non the less.

I'd love to stand again, but maybe it isn't so bad having to sit down after all!

[Dirk Gently]

Again, the old argument that Hillsborough was caused by standing.

Hillsborough was caused by fencing and excessive crowds and crowd mobility in an enclosed space. Just about everyone recognizes that today.

[Katie Marsden]

Again, the old argument that Hillsborough was caused by standing.

Hillsborough was caused by fencing and excessive crowds and crowd mobility in an enclosed space. Just about everyone recognizes that today.

It's down to ignorant comments like the post by Copelled Streets that are a big reason why standing won't return to grounds in England.

Fencing is what caused the deaths at Hillsborough, not standing. Take away the fence and people would have hopped over the wall and been safe regardless of what caused the over crowding.

Even if you bought back massive terraces with no gangways you'd never get another Hillsborough because the fences have gone.

[cmonurz]

Again, the old argument that Hillsborough was caused by standing.

Hillsborough was caused by fencing and excessive crowds and crowd mobility in an enclosed space. Just about everyone recognizes that today.

It's down to ignorant comments like the post by Copelled Streets that are a big reason why standing won't return to grounds in England.

Fencing is what caused the deaths at Hillsborough, not standing. Take away the fence and people would have hopped over the wall and been safe regardless of what caused the over crowding.

Even if you bought back massive terraces with no gangways you'd never get another Hillsborough because the fences have gone.

Hillsborough was not just caused by a fence.

[Katie Marsden]

The actual deaths were caused by crushing which was caused by fencing.

Obviously there were other factors including drunken ticketless fans, inept policing and crowd control but if the fence hadn't been at the front of the terrace then no one would have died.

[Kitsondinho]

The actual deaths were caused by crushing which was caused by fencing.

Obviously there were other factors including drunken ticketless fans, inept policing and crowd control but if the fence hadn't been at the front of the terrace then no one would have died.

The actual deaths were caused by people being crushed or trampled, against a fence or each other. If they had been sitting this would not have happened regardless of the presence of a fence. I really cannot understand why anyone would consider bringing standing back, no matter how safe it could be made. It just seems totally disrespectful.

[Katie Marsden]

That's rubbish, if you fenced in a section of seating and then put two or three times the number of people in it that it was meant to hold you'd get crushing and trampling.

Liverpool fans are actually becoming very vocal in the debate about standing areas returning. They also stand during big games at Anfield so using your logic they're already being disrespectful because they stand at games.

[Coppelled Streets]

Again, the old argument that Hillsborough was caused by standing.

Hillsborough was caused by fencing and excessive crowds and crowd mobility in an enclosed space. Just about everyone recognizes that today.

It's down to ignorant comments like the post by Copelled Streets that are a big reason why standing won't return to grounds in England.

I'm not arguing the Hillsborough disaster took place because of standing, or fencing....... I just hope we can prevent another horrific incident like that happening again!

Ignorant? Judging by your lack of knowledge about the whole affair I would have to ask you to have a look closer to home!

[Katie Marsden]

Again, the old argument that Hillsborough was caused by standing.

Hillsborough was caused by fencing and excessive crowds and crowd mobility in an enclosed space. Just about everyone recognizes that today.

It's down to ignorant comments like the post by Copelled Streets that are a big reason why standing won't return to grounds in England.

I'm not arguing the Hillsborough disaster took place because of standing, or fencing....... I just hope we can prevent another horrific incident like that happening again!

Ignorant? Judging by your lack of knowledge about the whole affair I would have to ask you to have a look closer to home!

Feel free to take issue to any of the comments I've made on the subject then, shouldn't be very hard as according to you I lack knowledge about the affair.

[Farnborough Royal]

That's rubbish, if you fenced in a section of seating and then put two or three times the number of people in it that it was meant to hold you'd get crushing and trampling.

Liverpool fans are actually becoming very vocal in the debate about standing areas returning. They also stand during big games at Anfield so using your logic they're already being disrespectful because they stand at games.

Indeed.

Look at the United fans at Lille. All seated + too many people + a fence = nearly another Hillsbrough.

Standing should be brought back IMO, its doesn't feel right sitting down and singing.

[Scylla]

Between: trying to see; trying to stay upright; trying to avoid getting pissed on by the bloke behind. I don't remember that there was all that much time for singing.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Between: trying to see; trying to stay upright; trying to avoid getting pissed on by the bloke behind. I don't remember that there was all that much time for singing.

I went to hundreds of games standing, and I never once had to make any effort to avoid being pissing on by a bloke behind me, as I never ever saw anyone having a piss while stood on the terrace.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

The actual deaths were caused by crushing which was caused by fencing.

Obviously there were other factors including drunken ticketless fans, inept policing and crowd control but if the fence hadn't been at the front of the terrace then no one would have died.

The actual deaths were caused by people being crushed or trampled, against a fence or each other. If they had been sitting this would not have happened regardless of the presence of a fence. I really cannot understand why anyone would consider bringing standing back, no matter how safe it could be made. It just seems totally disrespectful.

I think a few dozen died in the tunnel leading to the terrace. How would seating have saved them?

It also wasn't caused by drunken ticketless fans. It was caused by around 2000 people filing into a space designed to hold about 1200. The design of the access tunnels meant that people were inclined to go for the central section, and once inside there was no way of getting to the emptier side sections.

With safe standing you have strictly controlled limits on the numbers of people in each section so that can't happen.

[Scylla]

Between: trying to see; trying to stay upright; trying to avoid getting pissed on by the bloke behind. I don't remember that there was all that much time for singing.

I went to hundreds of games standing, and I never once had to make any effort to avoid being pissing on by a bloke behind me, as I never ever saw anyone having a piss while stood on the terrace.

I wasn't referring to Reading and you probably are? It definately happened elsewhere. In practice no one literally got pissed on, everyone surged out of the way and someone about 5 steps in front went on his arse.

The point I was trying to make was that singing was a pretty small part of the experience. A highly controlled terrace with everyone standing around like a male voice choir is no more like football in the 70's and 80's than what we have now. I don't accept that we need terraces so that people can sing.

However, though I'm much to old and grumpy to stand up now if others want to that's fine by me.