Justice For The 96

[SLAMMED]

Why do people keep apologising for it

[Victor Meldrew]

Why do people keep apologising for it

Why not?

[bobbybottler]

The Sun reported many facts which weren't true - however, a lot of it was facts they were told by the police and authorities which weren't true. If a police officer told me a story as a journo, I'd probably believe them over a set of football fans all sticking up for one another.

It was Tory MP Sir Irvine Patnick who fed a lot of the lies to the Sun via the news agency.

There is a whole section in the report about his involvement. He has so far refused to comment on the report.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-09- ... formation/

He has this afternoon 'fessed up, and has chosen to plead ignorance.

Statement reads:
"I would like to put on the record how appalled and shocked I was to discover the extent of the deceit and cover-up surrounding these events.

It is now clear that the information I received from some police officers at the time was wholly inaccurate, misleading and plain wrong.

However, I totally accept responsibility for passing such information on without asking further questions.

So, many years after this tragic event, I am deeply and sincerely sorry for the part I played in adding to the pain and suffering of the victims' families."

[Jackson Corner]

Justice at last for the best fans in the world........Just ask Juventus.

[PBR]

justice will be served when blood is shed

[paultheroyal]

Justice at last

How the fcuk is any of this justice, all I've heard the last 20 years is the same broken record "It was all the police's fault", "we were tarred unfairly with a tainted brush", "everybody hates us because we're liverpool", and now this report is released and says the exact same thing as we've heard for 20 years, and then everybody calls it justice? I'd say it was just more of the same.

Usually when there's two sides to a story, the truth is somewhere inbetween.

No matter what really happened, I hope this is the end of their perpetual playing of the same broken record.

plus

[paultheroyal]

Think we need one more sensible post from someone to wrap this up with some compassion and then lock.

[cmonurz]

Most of the shit is from the usual suspects. Pretty disappointed in JC though, we disagree on a lot, but not normally because he is an objectionable cnut.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

My 2 pence worth.

Hillsborough was a terrible tragedy. The police were complete arseholes, covered it up & many were left to perish that could have survived.

HOWEVER

Despite all this, a large chunk Liverpool fans continue to 'bunk' into European away games by having fake or photocopied tickets, even stealing them off kids!!! This is an article written by an LFC fan:
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Athens was very different. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the ticket allocation – and few could argue that 17,000 was enough to satisfy Liverpool fans’ demand – there were people at the stadium who were determined to get into the match by whatever means necessary.

In recent years, there have been a number of incidents – mostly unreported – where Liverpool supporters have charged turnstiles in massive numbers, setting up dangerous situations.

At Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi-final two years ago, a very dangerous crush ensued when Scousers broke through the gates. Away to PSV Eindhoven in the quarter-final this season, there were frightening moments outside the ground and the behaviour of ticketless fans provoked some harsh exchanges on the internet forums.

It is a problem that will not go away. “Bunking-in” is not just the last resort of the desperate fan; there are a substantial minority among Liverpool’s travelling support who see getting into a game without paying as a badge of honour. A number of books written about the experiences of Liverpool fans in the 1970s and 1980s have mythologised bunking-in and the younger generation, seeking to emulate their elders, have little compunction about sneaking into a ground and occupying someone else’s seat.

Mostly, they are young Scousers – and those with out-of-town accents and tickets who try to get their seats back can find themselves in unpleasant confrontations.

As the game moves upmarket and seeks to keep its traditional constituency outside the stadium while the corporate fans feast like kings inside, bunking-in will become a bigger problem.

Some Liverpool supporters even see it as a guerrilla act, the ultimate revenge of the disenfranchised fan. Priced out of the game? That’s OK, it’s free to the bunkers and they have the added satisfaction of making sure that they are not putting any money in the filthy-rich coffers of football’s billionaires. It is a class war statement for some.

But what they forget is that such behaviour gives the police licence to crack heads – and invariably, like on Wednesday night, it’s not the Scallies and bunkers who suffer. Having seen their lines swamped earlier in the day, the police were taking no chances with a second humiliation and took out their frustration on people with tickets.

That horde swarming over the gates are the flip side of the fanaticism we saw at Anfield against Barcelona and Chelsea. The bunkers want to get into the ground and all the police in Athens could not stop them. It might take a disaster to do that.

If it does, then it will be a very different tragedy to Hillsborough. Because then we – the men and boys whose desperation to get into the game makes us take wild risks – will have to shoulder the blame. And that’s too high a price to pay to see a football match.

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If LFC 'fans' want to honour the memories of those that lost their lives, then perhaps they should stop acting like cnuts and realise they don't have a divine right to get in free to football matches. No other club in the UK behaves like that. Feel free to have a go at me - I don't give a shit. A large proportion of their fanbase are cnuts.

[cmonurz]

You know for a fact, do you, that no other club ever sees ticketless fans arrive at games. You know that?

And much more pertinently, what on earth does that have to do with this terrible tragedy, for which the fans have been completely absolved of blame.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

You know for a fact, do you, that no other club ever sees ticketless fans arrive at games. You know that?

And much more pertinently, what on earth does that have to do with this terrible tragedy, for which the fans have been completely absolved of blame.

It has everything to do with Hillsborough!! Despite what happened, hoards of Liverpool fans without tickets are creating crushes at games & making them dangerous.

You can blame policing, security, ticket scan processes, whatever you like, but at some point people have to take personal responsibility for their actions & stay away if they don't have tickets.

[cmonurz]

You know for a fact, do you, that no other club ever sees ticketless fans arrive at games. You know that?

And much more pertinently, what on earth does that have to do with this terrible tragedy, for which the fans have been completely absolved of blame.

It has everything to do with Hillsborough!! Despite what happened, hoards of Liverpool fans without tickets are creating crushes at games & making them dangerous.

You can blame policing, security, ticket scan processes, whatever you like, but at some point people have to take personal responsibility for their actions & stay away if they don't have tickets.

Rubbish, absolute rubbish.

The underlying current of hate for this football club is unreal. God forbid anyone on here ever suffers like the victims of this disaster or has to deal with the aftermath like their friends or families. Far too many characters on here who couldn't even begin to empathise with that unless it happened to them.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

You're telling me that any other club in England would have 10000+ fans trying to force their way into a stadium without tickets?!

Sorry but take your head out of your ass. Has nothing to do with an undercurrent of hate =- it's based on facts. The club should be doing more to keep the feral rats of their fanbase away from these games.

[cmonurz]

No, it's what I said.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

No, it's what I said.

Well sorry I categorically disagree with you.

The LFC fans that have tickets should report the twats that cause danger for everyone. The club should also impose banning orders on idiots with fake tickets if they get caught & inform the airports etc so they can't get into foreign countries for away games.

Given what has happened in the past, you'd think they'd want to help prevent anything like that happening again wouldn't you??

Wouldn't you??

[No Fixed Abode]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying this is exclusive of Liverpool fans. It's people in general. If it didn't happen at Hillsborough it could well have happened elsewhere. So, at least some good has come out of this and people's attitude and understanding of others has certainly improved at football matches in the current era.

to restate a point made earlier, a crowd will act like a crowd, which is why a lot of effort is put into crowd management - to make sure situations such as crushes don't develop.

While it's blindingly obvious that the crush was caused by the number of supporters, that's a country mile away from saying they were responsible for the crush, even partly. When it comes to apportioning blame, you have to ask who did things they shouldn't have done, and who didn't do things they should have done? Unless there's evidence of fans storming the gates (which there isn't) or fans using brute force to try and force the people ahead of them down the tunnel (which there isn't) or a large number of ticketless fans causing the end to overfill (which there isn't) maybe you could add your opinion to what you think fans did wrong, without the naive response that they should just have all queued politely down the street.

Don't forget, after all, that the middle sections were already dangerous overfilled even before the gate got opened. People might well have died even if there had been those polite queues outside.

So a crowd will act like a crowd and that makes it's ok does it?

Whilst there is no evidence of Liverpool fans not being there without tickets, you can pretty much guarantee there were some there, more so being an FA Cup semi final - but these people are not going to come forward and say so are they? Likewise with the fans who misbehaved that day (sure to be a minority that did). They won't come forward and say they were pushing their way through the crowds outside the Leppings Lane stand causing the crush there or trying to jib in - afterall, it's the worst day (that and Heysel) in Liverpool's history - can you imagine the contempt they would receive if they came forward and held their hands up and said "You know what, I was being impatient and pushing my way to the Leppings Lane turnstiles to get in for kick off". Or "I was trying to jib in the ground or I misbehaved". To clear ALL Liverpool fans of blame means - there were no fans without tickets in the vicinity, no fans pushing to cause the crush outside the ground etc. This just didn't happen.

[who are ya?]

Liverpool are the original jibbers, it's just what they do

[MmmMonsterMunch]

There is evidence they were storming the gates in Athens but ssssh don't mention that as you're not empathising apparently.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

So a crowd will act like a crowd and that makes it's ok does it?

Are you deliberately misunderstanding, or are you just a bit thick?

Acting like a crowd doesn't mean "acting like a mob". It means that when you have a large number of people in a confined space, they way people move and act is different to what they do if they have a load of space.

As a result, anywhere where there's large crowds in confined areas, those crowds need to be managed to control the flow of people so dangerous situations don't develop.

Do you remember the early days of the Madejski Stadium, when there used to be a staircase down the slope in the south east corner. After a couple of games it got fenced off and eventually removed, as it was realised it was a disaster waiting to happen. It's not that Reading fans were acting like a mob and pushing people down the staircase in their impatience to get away, but simply that when people get confined into a space like that, it's much harder to control your exact movements.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

There is evidence they were storming the gates in Athens

10,000 of them?