Stadium Expansion

[Katie Marsden]

You said it is a tiny number who want standing and now you say that you don't know as there are no 'real figures' around.

What do you mean?

Tiny numbers - less than 10,000 sign the SDSU petition in 2 1/2 years doesn;t seem to indicate a masive level of support

Numbers standing at the Mad Stad - not sure, but pretty much confined to one section of the East Stand

Numbers doing much to progress the cause at RFC - negligible ?

So it seems that there isn;t a huge groundswell of support (doesn;tmean it's not a valid cause though !)

But I haven;t seen any proper surveys or studies which show what the level of support is. From what I can see it's not a big issue, but what studies have been done to actually work out if it's 1%, 10% or 99% of fans who actually want the option to stand. The SUSD petition numbers would suggest 1% would be a generous estimate...

How many people signed a petition that they wanted to sit back in early 90's when all seater grounds were shooting up? You can't base your whole arguement on one petition. No one can be that stupid surely.

Theres alot more than 1% of fans that want to stand. I'd put it at around the 25%-35% bracket. If people could stand hassle free they'd chose to. Especially those under 30.

[SWLR]

Yawn!!!!

Push off to your own thread

[biscuitsrus]

You said it is a tiny number who want standing and now you say that you don't know as there are no 'real figures' around.

What do you mean?

Tiny numbers - less than 10,000 sign the SDSU petition in 2 1/2 years doesn;t seem to indicate a masive level of support

Numbers standing at the Mad Stad - not sure, but pretty much confined to one section of the East Stand

Numbers doing much to progress the cause at RFC - negligible ?

So it seems that there isn;t a huge groundswell of support (doesn;tmean it's not a valid cause though !)

But I haven;t seen any proper surveys or studies which show what the level of support is. From what I can see it's not a big issue, but what studies have been done to actually work out if it's 1%, 10% or 99% of fans who actually want the option to stand. The SUSD petition numbers would suggest 1% would be a generous estimate...

How many people signed a petition that they wanted to sit back in early 90's when all seater grounds were shooting up? You can't base your whole arguement on one petition. No one can be that stupid surely.

Theres alot more than 1% of fans that want to stand. I'd put it at around the 25%-35% bracket. If people could stand hassle free they'd chose to. Especially those under 30.

But not under 13!

[SWLR]

stand-up Yawn!!, sit-down Yawn!! do the oakey-coakeyYawn!!

[Behindu]

[ You can't base your whole arguement on one petition. No one can be that stupid surely.

.

I'm not, I asked a question about the level of support and indicated that there seems little info.
Quoting one survey is however rather better than making a total guess as you have done !!

As I've said, I'm in favour of people having an option but doubt whether it's even a consideration for the vast majority. I'd certainly suggest that it's not a big deal for most Reading fans and have seen no evidence to show it is anything other than a vocal minority who want it - not that being a vocal minority means your view is wrong !

[West Stand Man]

How many people signed a petition that they wanted to sit back in early 90's when all seater grounds were shooting up? You can't base your whole arguement on one petition. No one can be that stupid surely.

Theres alot more than 1% of fans that want to stand. I'd put it at around the 25%-35% bracket. If people could stand hassle free they'd chose to. Especially those under 30.

You are clearly too young to remember why all seater stadiums were introduced. It had nothing at all to do with fan desire or wishes and all about violence and safety. Of course there were no petitions in support of it - it was a requirement that fans brought on themselves by a series of stupid acts in standing stadiums. The advice then was that making all fans sit would go someway to defusing the tension - and it seems to have worked thus far. It is for that reason alone that there is unlikely to be a change in the near future.

Nothing that the pro standing campaigners have said - either on this site or elsewhere - seriously challenges that. [/u][/i]

[Katie Marsden]

How many people signed a petition that they wanted to sit back in early 90's when all seater grounds were shooting up? You can't base your whole arguement on one petition. No one can be that stupid surely.

Theres alot more than 1% of fans that want to stand. I'd put it at around the 25%-35% bracket. If people could stand hassle free they'd chose to. Especially those under 30.

You are clearly too young to remember why all seater stadiums were introduced. It had nothing at all to do with fan desire or wishes and all about violence and safety. Of course there were no petitions in support of it - it was a requirement that fans brought on themselves by a series of stupid acts in standing stadiums. The advice then was that making all fans sit would go someway to defusing the tension - and it seems to have worked thus far. It is for that reason alone that there is unlikely to be a change in the near future.

Nothing that the pro standing campaigners have said - either on this site or elsewhere - seriously challenges that. [/u][/i]

I think better policing and the introduction of CCTV inside grounds aswell as tougher sentences for hooligans cut down trouble inside stadiums. People committed stupid acts inside seated stands in the 80's aswell, it wasn't just the terraces that were to blame. The Millwall riot at Luton is one high profile incident where seats were used as weapons.

You make the common mistake of thinking it was just terraces that were to blame. If standing areas were introduced they'd be no more trouble than there is now, 99% of trouble takes place outside a football ground.

If it was done correctly it would allow those that wish to stand the chance to do so, it would create a much better atmosphere and it would also give people the chance to watch football without sitting near moaning old gits like yourself.

[shadesrwrf]

Can I just say that whilst I don't always agree with your views Katie, on this occasion your contribution is spot on.

[Finchley Royal]

You are clearly too young to remember why all seater stadiums were introduced. It had nothing at all to do with fan desire or wishes and all about violence and safety. Of course there were no petitions in support of it - it was a requirement that fans brought on themselves by a series of stupid acts in standing stadiums. The advice then was that making all fans sit would go someway to defusing the tension - and it seems to have worked thus far. It is for that reason alone that there is unlikely to be a change in the near future.

[/u][/i]

All seater stadia were introduced solely because of Hillsborough (and the previous incidences of spectator crushing), rather than any violence. Hillsborough was not a result of any stupid acts by fans, it was caused by errors made by the S Yorks police.

All seater stadia have had some effect in reducing trouble - it's much easier to identify and eject someone causing trouble in a seat than in a terrace, and the increase in prices has priced some troublemakers out of football grounds, but these have been the effects of the policy rather than the cause for implementing it in the first place. The culture of going to football matches and causing trouble has changed, such that a partial return to some standing within grounds is not going to bring back the problems of the late 70s and early 80s.

[biscuitsrus]

How many people signed a petition that they wanted to sit back in early 90's when all seater grounds were shooting up? You can't base your whole arguement on one petition. No one can be that stupid surely.

Theres alot more than 1% of fans that want to stand. I'd put it at around the 25%-35% bracket. If people could stand hassle free they'd chose to. Especially those under 30.

You are clearly too young to remember why all seater stadiums were introduced. It had nothing at all to do with fan desire or wishes and all about violence and safety. Of course there were no petitions in support of it - it was a requirement that fans brought on themselves by a series of stupid acts in standing stadiums. The advice then was that making all fans sit would go someway to defusing the tension - and it seems to have worked thus far. It is for that reason alone that there is unlikely to be a change in the near future.

Nothing that the pro standing campaigners have said - either on this site or elsewhere - seriously challenges that. [/u][/i]

I think better policing and the introduction of CCTV inside grounds aswell as tougher sentences for hooligans cut down trouble inside stadiums. People committed stupid acts inside seated stands in the 80's aswell, it wasn't just the terraces that were to blame. The Millwall riot at Luton is one high profile incident where seats were used as weapons.

You make the common mistake of thinking it was just terraces that were to blame. If standing areas were introduced they'd be no more trouble than there is now, 99% of trouble takes place outside a football ground.

If it was done correctly it would allow those that wish to stand the chance to do so, it would create a much better atmosphere and it would also give people the chance to watch football without sitting near moaning old gits like yourself.

Echo, totally agree.

[West Stand Man]

How many people signed a petition that they wanted to sit back in early 90's when all seater grounds were shooting up? You can't base your whole arguement on one petition. No one can be that stupid surely.

Theres alot more than 1% of fans that want to stand. I'd put it at around the 25%-35% bracket. If people could stand hassle free they'd chose to. Especially those under 30.

You are clearly too young to remember why all seater stadiums were introduced. It had nothing at all to do with fan desire or wishes and all about violence and safety. Of course there were no petitions in support of it - it was a requirement that fans brought on themselves by a series of stupid acts in standing stadiums. The advice then was that making all fans sit would go someway to defusing the tension - and it seems to have worked thus far. It is for that reason alone that there is unlikely to be a change in the near future.

Nothing that the pro standing campaigners have said - either on this site or elsewhere - seriously challenges that. [/u][/i]

I think better policing and the introduction of CCTV inside grounds aswell as tougher sentences for hooligans cut down trouble inside stadiums. People committed stupid acts inside seated stands in the 80's aswell, it wasn't just the terraces that were to blame. The Millwall riot at Luton is one high profile incident where seats were used as weapons.

You make the common mistake of thinking it was just terraces that were to blame. If standing areas were introduced they'd be no more trouble than there is now, 99% of trouble takes place outside a football ground.

If it was done correctly it would allow those that wish to stand the chance to do so, it would create a much better atmosphere and it would also give people the chance to watch football without sitting near moaning old gits like yourself.

1. I haven't moaned once! The fact that what I have said doesn't suit your case doesn't constitute moaning. I can moan if you want, and my children will tell you I am a master at the art; but so far I haven't resorted to that here.
2. It is now illegal to discriminate on grounds of age ! I may be a git, but how would you know?
3. I have made no mistake in assessing that it was solely terracing that caused the problem - I've simply stated the fact that the government made that decision based on that view, and that there is nothing that has happened since to change their minds about the relative safety levels of seating and terracing.
4. If you are incapable of reading and understanding facts and differentiating them from opinion I can't help that.
5. I have lots of opinions, and am happy to share them; and I can tell the difference between my opinion, and fact.
HTH !

[Winchester Royal]

I bet you do moan when somebody is standing up in front of you

[ruprecht]

Disgraceful scenes at the all seated White Hart Lane the other day.

[Behindu]

So are you suggesting pitches should be made all seater ?

[anR]

Disgraceful scenes at the all seated White Hart Lane the other day.

Did you cast your eyes to the South Stand when Man Utd came to the Madejski? I remember at Fulham they can not throw you out if everyone stands... Stand tall together everyone!

It would be interesting to see proposed plans for a standing area at Madejski. Not sure if I'd want to move to the North Stand though...

[RG30]

The standing law is so inconsistent. How is it deemed safer that 30,000 fans can stand at a Madejski Stadium Red Hot Chilli Peppers concert compared to what would be a designated standing area that is as safe as your going to get with the recommendations made by SUSD and the FSF.

[Behindu]

Maybe because the law re football was brought in as a supposed solution to a football incident ?

I can think of crushing issues at concerts in the US and Europe but not anything large scale in the UK.

Football fans are largely to blame for the factthat we are governed by more draconian rules than other events (ie no beer in football grounds / beer in rugby grounds).

[Silver Fox]

Football contains moments where a crowd dynamic will change without warning and this doesn't happen in concerts

And this is the worst pro-standing argument there is, even worse than "but the away fans do it"

[Behindu]

Have to disagree there SF, been to many concerts where the crowd sway and surge every bit as unpredicatably and dangerously as a football crowd.
However it tends to happen on the pitch / floor area rather than where people are stood in seated areas. People who sit in seats at concerts seem to do so becasue the want to be away from the crush.

[Katie Marsden]

Football contains moments where a crowd dynamic will change without warning and this doesn't happen in concerts

And this is the worst pro-standing argument there is, even worse than "but the away fans do it"

When was the last time you saw the crowd dynamic change suddenly at a game that was likely to cause danger? If someone runs over and celebrates a goal the fans will already be standing anyway. I've never seen 1000 or even 100 people get up and surge down the seats at the Madejski out of the blue. The closest was the play off semi final with Wigan but everyone expected that and were standing in the gangways down the front of the East. No one was unjured.

Theres zero safety reasons for not introducing standing areas at games. It's even perfectly safe to stand in all seated grounds, Man Utd and Liverpool have been standing away from home at every game for over 10 years and theres no injuries. That's thousands of games and no injuries.