Stadium Expansion

[roland*]

I'd also agree that Scenario E (oddly missing from the original list ) represents the current situation for home fans, and don't think the fact that home and away fans are policed differently is of any relevance.

Scenario E was omitted because it just quite clearly isn't realistic.

Like it or not, people are going to stand at times that are deemed inconvenient for those around them. Some people want to stand. FACT.

The sooner a policy is formulated that deals with this reality the better I believe. This is the sensible way forward.

Burying your heading in the sand and believing that everyone can sit in a nice ordily fashion and cheer and stand in unison is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[West Stand Man]

Oh no it isn't!

[ruprecht]

I think we should have large signs placed around the Madejski stadium which tell us when we can sit or stand. This would then avoid any confusion. West Stand Man could be in control of this as he seems like an open minded individual.

[Diamond]

this is all conjecture anyway - we dont know whats going to happen until it happens.

All we can do now is wait for RBC to either agree or decline the planning application for the expansion, and then see what (if any) government legislation comes into force re: Standing.

Until we know that, there's not a lot of point arguing the toss

Just HURRY UP RBC!

[Behindu]

Roland
The current situation (Scenario E) is what has been stated many times by the club.
It only doesn;t work becasue some people decide they don;t want to follow it and stand all the time.
It's a pretty easy rule to follow (although I'd agree that some stewards need refresher training !).

There is no other option at the moment. The extended areas haven;t been designed for standing so as far as I can see there is no option in the future.

I would imagine there would be more chance of getting standing if the people interested got a bit organised and put a sensible campaign together. Simply ignoring the rules and standing anyway will not do anyone any favours, and posting on message boards that it should be 'easy' to make standing areas is not the level of debate needed.

If it is such a big thing then why don;t the people who want it get someproper figures together about how many people want the option, get some proper info on options and relate them to our ground to see if it can be achieved and ask for meetings with Nigel Howe to discuss it properly.

From what I see so far there is a tiny number who want it (even the StandUp Sit Down campaign seems to have tiny support) and no one really organising a credible campaign to achieve it.

[Dirk Gently]

There certainly is a credible campaign to support it, with a meeting held in Parliament last week, for instance.

But the simple fact is that there is nothing that can be done at a local level - until national legislation is changed there is nothing that Reading FC could do, even if they wanted to, and all the meetings in the world with Nigel Howe won't change that. The club's hands are completely tied on this, they have no choice in the matter other than to take action - as I've posted countless times previously.

So only once legislation is changed nationally (if indeed it is) that will be the time to discuss matters with individual clubs.

[Behindu]

Dirk

Your reply suggests that you don't think there will ever be standing.

If you wait for legislation change then you will find clubs will have built new grounds / stands based on seating only and then won't want to rebuild to allow standing.

Surely local campaigns are needed to get clubs to design their grounds so that future legislation changes can be quickly and easily reacted to.

To simply say that because the FSF has had a meeting in Parliament means a credible campaign exists misses the point IMHO. SUSD lacks credibility becasue it has small numbers backing it (to have under 10,000 signatories after 2 1/2 years is poor),

If there were proper local campaigns that did not involve just wilfully breaking the rules I am sure more progress could be made. I don't think baiting the stewards does the very valid arguements about choice any favours and don;t see any proper attempt to change things coming out of the vocal minority at Reading.

[Dirk Gently]

In fact, I'm sure there will be standing, once legislation has changed.

I am also convinced that a number of Premier League clubs will embrace this once they are allowed to - but they are too much under threat from their local Councils & the FLA to actually break ranks and say so publicly.

The challenge is, as you allude to, to get legislation changed before too many new grounds / stands are built which make standing areas impossible. And from what I know substantial political progress has been made on this issue, with more to come soon.

But it really is that until legislation changes nothing can happen locally that will have any effect. And I do agree completely that until that point comes any local standing protests are pointless and make things much worse for everyone else - as well as not achieving anything.

[readingbedding]

Roland
The current situation (Scenario E) is what has been stated many times by the club.
It only doesn;t work becasue some people decide they don;t want to follow it and stand all the time.
It's a pretty easy rule to follow (although I'd agree that some stewards need refresher training !).

There is no other option at the moment. The extended areas haven;t been designed for standing so as far as I can see there is no option in the future.

I would imagine there would be more chance of getting standing if the people interested got a bit organised and put a sensible campaign together. Simply ignoring the rules and standing anyway will not do anyone any favours, and posting on message boards that it should be 'easy' to make standing areas is not the level of debate needed.

If it is such a big thing then why don;t the people who want it get someproper figures together about how many people want the option, get some proper info on options and relate them to our ground to see if it can be achieved and ask for meetings with Nigel Howe to discuss it properly.

From what I see so far there is a tiny number who want it (even the StandUp Sit Down campaign seems to have tiny support) and no one really organising a credible campaign to achieve it.

From 23/02/01

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/1191712.stm

From 11/01/02

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1754088.stm

From 14/03/07

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6444083.stm

This has been talked about and talked about for years.

You are wrong though, the people in the FDF are very serious about it.

[Behindu]

I actually think my point is probably a wider one...

I see too many people who are prepared to indulge in token 'civil disobediance' or posturing on message boards rather than getting involved in more effective and thought out campaigning.

Standing won't be allowed because people break the rules or because they 'think it's easy' to allow.

If at every club in the country there was a proper campaign to show that a significant number fo people wanted to stand and that was backed up by a serious proposal as to how that could be achieved I believe it would have a much bigger impact on the legislators than what is happening now.

Whether people are willing to do more than post on message boards is an open question....

[Behindu]

[
You are wrong though, the people in the FDF are very serious about it.

What am I wrong about ?

What proper campaign is there at Reading ?

I know there are various groups working on things nationally but see no real figures around how much support there is.

The FFC stats are garbage by the way. It is not a proper poll - it's a self selecting group of people (of which I'm a member !)and common sense would tell you 92% is a wildly optimistic figure.

[readingbedding]

[
You are wrong though, the people in the FDF are very serious about it.

What am I wrong about ?

What proper campaign is there at Reading ?

I know there are various groups working on things nationally but see no real figures around how much support there is.

The FFC stats are garbage by the way. It is not a proper poll - it's a self selecting group of people (of which I'm a member !)and common sense would tell you 92% is a wildly optimistic figure.

You said it is a tiny number who want standing and now you say that you don't know as there are no 'real figures' around.

What do you mean?

[STAR Liaison]

Whether people are willing to do more than post on message boards is an open question....

From my point of view at STAR we have only ever had one email stating a view on whether standing should be allowed and one email on the subject but without actually stating a view (though I can read between the lines very easily) amd that is a score of one for and one against! And that was after specifically asking for responses. I know there will be people out there who will say they don't bother as they 'know' STAR will do nothing, but the massive majority of Reading fans that some think want to stand do seem to be a silent majority once out of the Mad Stad and seem reluctant to actually do anything.

[Behindu]

You said it is a tiny number who want standing and now you say that you don't know as there are no 'real figures' around.

What do you mean?

Tiny numbers - less than 10,000 sign the SDSU petition in 2 1/2 years doesn;t seem to indicate a masive level of support

Numbers standing at the Mad Stad - not sure, but pretty much confined to one section of the East Stand

Numbers doing much to progress the cause at RFC - negligible ?

So it seems that there isn;t a huge groundswell of support (doesn;tmean it's not a valid cause though !)

But I haven;t seen any proper surveys or studies which show what the level of support is. From what I can see it's not a big issue, but what studies have been done to actually work out if it's 1%, 10% or 99% of fans who actually want the option to stand. The SUSD petition numbers would suggest 1% would be a generous estimate...

[Dirk Gently]

A lot of is is down to exactly how you ask the question.

For example, the FFC survey results to be released very soon show that 92% or respondents "would like to see clubs re-introduce standing areas."

That doesn't mean they want to stand themselves, though - just that the recognise the need for choice and that the current "one-size-fits-all" option isn't working.

Personally (and this is wholly unscientific) I think that about 25-30 of people would stand if given the choice - but this varies according to local tradition and the profile of those involved (it varies from club to club).

At Reading I don't think more than about 15-20% would want to stand on a regular basis. I'm nor one of them, but I fervently believe that they should be given to choice to do so.

[Behindu]

Dirk
Are you in agreement with me that the FFC survey is of little real value ?
It isn't a proper sample of people who attend football matches - it's a pretty self selecting group of hard core fans, it's not in any way representative of fans as a whole AFAIK.

I would agree that in an ideal world there should be a choice but I doubt this issue would come top of most fans priority list - things like ticket prices, catering, on field performance would I suggest be of more significance to most fans.

[Dirk Gently]

To be honest I don't know the full background of the FFC, so I'll find out before I comment on its validity. But I do agree that any survey can only be as valid as the sample of people which it represents.

On the second point you're right, but I think all the points are valid and worth campaigning about - it's just that this one has struck a public chord now because it is high profile and is progress is being made on it.

Then again, it again depends what question you are asking..... I'd bet that if you asked supporters "what spoils your enjoyment most when the match is in progress?" very many would cite standing - whether they want to and can't or whether other people who do are spoiling their view.

Also, I bet that if you asked stewards and club safety officers "What is the biggest issue that you have to deal with every match day?" then they'd cite standing as well.

It's a problem that can be resolved relatively easily, in a way which suits everyone, and so it should be resolved.

[readingbedding]

A lot of is is down to exactly how you ask the question.

For example, the FFC survey results to be released very soon show that 92% or respondents "would like to see clubs re-introduce standing areas."

That doesn't mean they want to stand themselves, though - just that the recognise the need for choice and that the current "one-size-fits-all" option isn't working.

Personally (and this is wholly unscientific) I think that about 25-30 of people would stand if given the choice - but this varies according to local tradition and the profile of those involved (it varies from club to club).

At Reading I don't think more than about 15-20% would want to stand on a regular basis. I'm nor one of them, but I fervently believe that they should be given to choice to do so.

Exactly.

[SWLR]

Yawn!!!! Can't wait for more news on the planning application and then this thread can get back to its original purpose. i.e. go start a 'let's stand' thread that the rest of us can ignore - more Yawning!

[Chaney]

Yawn!!!! Can't wait for more news on the planning application and then this thread can get back to its original purpose. i.e. go start a 'let's stand' thread that the rest of us can ignore - more Yawning!

I second that