Stadium Expansion

[Winchester Royal]

Do you guys stand up when watching the tv at home in the evening ?

Do you always sit down when you're taking a leak?

But I don't suppose he takes a leak while watching football - either in the stadium or on TV. Hope that helps?

It is a valid question. Do you stand in the living room to watch footy on the TV?

No, watching on the TV is passive, because you just watch, and watching at the game is active, because you support your team too. Its completely different, and you know it...

There is no need to react aggressively. I simply said it is a valid question. That warrants a valid answer - and there have been few (if any) so far. Emotive and aggressive retorts do little to back a case.

Of course I get excited by the game when at home, but in neither case (home nor stadium) does that mean I feel the irresistible urge to stand up. In fact I think I'd look a complete fool stood up in my living room watching football when I can be just as involved when seated.

The ideal for me is to spend most of the game on my seat being excited by the play, leaping to my feet in unison with those around me when play warrants it (usually a goal or a near goal). Having spent my formative years on the South Bank in the 60s, 70s and I am convinced that standing sucks.

You can have a different opinion, that is yours and everyone else's right, but fortunately mine is shared by the government at the moment. Suits me.

That wasn't aggressive, it was simply firm.

Don't you think that people should have the right to choose?
If somebody wanted to stand up in front of you every game, wouldn't you prefer it if he had a separate place to stand, out of your way, or would you rather have to pat him on the shoulder to get him to sit down every time something interesting happened?

Apparently you'd prefer the latter

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

The ideal for me is to spend most of the game on my seat being excited by the play, leaping to my feet in unison with those around me when play warrants it (usually a goal or a near goal). Having spent my formative years on the South Bank in the 60s, 70s and I am convinced that standing sucks.

I don't understand why you feel threatened by this. OK, you prefer to sit, and that's your choice, but nobody is suggesting the whole stadium is converted to standing, so I don't see your problem. If, for example, the bottom of the north and/or east stands were converted to standing (both of which are shallow enough to do so) then why would it be a problem for you?


ps, if you were at elm park in the 60s & 70s, then you must be the oldest person in england who says thing "suck"

[Royal Spangle]

BINGO... West Stand Man I agree with all you have said in your last post.
The stadium is an all seater staduim and surley thats a big enough clue on how you should behave when watching the football.

[Winchester Royal]

Any why do you appear so strongly opposed to making certain sections into standing sections?

Is it this bizarrely selfish desire for only your desires to be catered for?

Alternatively, you can continue to belittle the campaign and have your view obstructed whenever people stand, which you apparently would prefer.

[roland*]

Here is how I see the situation for those of you who continue to struggle to get to grips with the idea;

Scenario A; "Rigidly Enforced Rule" -

No one is allowed to stand at any point.

I don't think this is either practicable or desired and think most would agree.

Scenario B; "Blind Eye to the Rule" -

Here the stewards turn a blind eye to the rulebook. People can stand whenever they want. This means those who want to stand can do so without fear of being hastled by any stewards.

Again, this rule is unsatisfactory; although it would please the proportion of the crowd who wish to be stood up, it would mean preventing those who want sto remained seated from seeing much of the game.

Scenario C; "Inconsistently applied rule" -

This is the way I see the rule is currently enforced and being deployed by stewards. For whatever reason sometimes fans are allowed to stand in some sections of the ground whilst a strict seated only policy is deployed in otehr areas of the stadium.

Those who want to stand, but are denied the opportunity to do so, are left feeling cheated by the system. This is unsatisfactory

Those who want to be seated, but are forced to stand because the seating rule is not being enforced around them are made to stand up if they wish to see any of the game. This is also unsatisfactory

Scenario D; "Seperate dedicated safe standing area" -

Seperate areas of the stadium are dedicated to;

a) cater for either those who wish to stand on safe terracing.

AND

b) provide areas for those who wish to have a nice seat with unrestricted views in an area where standing is properly and consistently policed by stewards.

The two areas remain completely seperate. The seated areas are unaffected by the standing areas.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that Scenario D is the most sensible policy to take.

[West Stand Man]

Scenario E

Everyone stays in their seats (chanting, cheering, chatting to their neighbour - or whatever grabs them) until something really exciting happens and then momentarily leap to their feet before sitting back down.



Hmmmm - status quo for most of us.

ps - dear Mr Stickleback, I don't feel at all threatened, what a quaint concept!

Oh, and I am 52, so maybe I am the oldest person in the country to say things suck. Or maybe you lead a quaintly sheltered life?

[Winchester Royal]

Scenario E

Everyone stays in their seats (chanting, cheering, chatting to their neighbour - or whatever grabs them) until something really exciting happens and then momentarily leap to their feet before sitting back down.



Hmmmm - status quo for most of us.

ps - dear Mr Stickleback, I don't feel at all threatened, what a quaint concept!

Oh, and I am 52, so maybe I am the oldest person in the country to say things suck. Or maybe you lead a quaintly sheltered life?

You still haven't answered my question...

Why do you feel that fan who want to stand shouldn't be given the option of an area where they could stand without upsetting fans who wanted to sit?

Again, you selfishly want everybody to do what you want.

[roland*]

Scenario E

Everyone stays in their seats (chanting, cheering, chatting to their neighbour - or whatever grabs them) until something really exciting happens and then momentarily leap to their feet before sitting back down.



Hmmmm - status quo for most of us.

ps - dear Mr Stickleback, I don't feel at all threatened, what a quaint concept!

Oh, and I am 52, so maybe I am the oldest person in the country to say things suck. Or maybe you lead a quaintly sheltered life?

Why maintain the status quo when a significant proportion of the crowd are unhappy with it, as has been demonstrated countless times.

Until you can adequately justify why you believe that people should be denied their choice to stand in a safe environment your argument will continue to appear selfish, and ultimately, pretty ridiculous in my opinion.

[West Stand Man]

Read my posts again, and you'll see the case. If you don't like it I can't help that.

Until the law changes I am happy to be in an all seater, no more no less.


ps I have no difficulty with you having a dedicated standing area if the club wants to make one for you (after the government has changed the law). Until then all I ask is that the pig headed fans who insist on making a statement by standing in an all seater stadium cease their selfish defiance and let the rest of us enjoy the game lawfully.

ie Keep trying to change the law if you must, but obey the current one until then.

[Winchester Royal]

Read my posts again, and you'll see the case. Until then all I ask is that the pig headed fans who insist on making a statement by standing in an all seater stadium cease their selfish defiance and let the rest of us enjoy the game lawfully.

So if somebody is standing up somewhere else in the stadium, it means you don't enjoy the game?



You might like to stop taking the issue so seriously!

[ScottishRoyal]

Why are you all arguing over something that will never happen in a million years?

To take this back to it's original topic, does anyone have any further news on the planning application. I seem to remember a council response deadline around mid-March?

[West Stand Man]

Read my posts again, and you'll see the case. Until then all I ask is that the pig headed fans who insist on making a statement by standing in an all seater stadium cease their selfish defiance and let the rest of us enjoy the game lawfully.

So if somebody is standing up somewhere else in the stadium, it means you don't enjoy the game?



You might like to stop taking the issue so seriously!

You are fishing so badly here. Even I don't think that you are so dumb that you haven't figured out that a standing person (at the moment) is blocking the view of a legally seated person - which is pretty obviously what I said above (obvious to a non-fishing intellectual anyway!)

ps I am not taking anything seriously, there are too many really important things going on in the world for me to be excited about some people who find it impossible to enjoy football when seated. Simply expressing an opinion.

[Behindu]

Any idea how big the 'significant number' who want to stand is ?

And any idea how many have signed the Stand Up Sit Down petition ?

I'd agree that if possible it would be good if there was a choice, but i do wonder what the real level of demand is.

I'd also agree that Scenario E (oddly missing from the original list ) represents the current situation for home fans, and don't think the fact that home and away fans are policed differently is of any relevance.

[West Stand Man]

Why are you all arguing over something that will never happen in a million years?

To take this back to it's original topic, does anyone have any further news on the planning application. I seem to remember a council response deadline around mid-March?

How right you are. But don't assume that will stop the 'Stand Up' brigade from continuing the fruitless campaign. They will cite meaningless examples of so called safe standing on the assumption that the UK government gives a damn. Seated stadiums have improved football no end. It is now a real family affair, and our small children can be both safe, and see the game, anywhere in the stadium. How much better is that than the dreadful experiences of the earlier days of football, when all most people could see was the middle of the back of the tall bloke in front. There is no way my daughter would be such a loyal Royal if she had to endure that for 90 minutes (and whatever the 'Stand Ups' say there would be misplaced kids in the standing areas).

I have said it before, I think it is highly unlikely that any government would seriously entertain a return to standing terraces of any sort now that they have a relatively safe activity based around good quality seated stadiums. Hence, the campaign is free to keep lobbying - but in the meantime it would just be appreciated if they'd obey the laws / rules so that they are not blocking the view that the rest of us have paid for.

[Winchester Royal]

Read my posts again, and you'll see the case. Until then all I ask is that the pig headed fans who insist on making a statement by standing in an all seater stadium cease their selfish defiance and let the rest of us enjoy the game lawfully.

So if somebody is standing up somewhere else in the stadium, it means you don't enjoy the game?



You might like to stop taking the issue so seriously!

You are fishing so badly here. Even I don't think that you are so dumb that you haven't figured out that a standing person (at the moment) is blocking the view of a legally seated person - which is pretty obviously what I said above (obvious to a non-fishing intellectual anyway!)

ps I am not taking anything seriously, there are too many really important things going on in the world for me to be excited about some people who find it impossible to enjoy football when seated. Simply expressing an opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly that people should not stand in front of seated fans and block their view - thats not on.
However, if standing fans are not in the way of anybody else, I cannot see an issue. For example, if the fans in the last 10 rows of a stand all want to stand up, then it doesn't do any harm when they do so.

I don't think you should have your view obstructed. You prefer to sit down to watch your football, and I respect that. However other people prefer not to sit down, and when they choose to do that en masse at the back of a stand, it does no harm to people who are sitting down elsewhere.

The issue could be handled sensibly, by allocating areas for fans who want to stand, areas that are away from seated sections. That way, there would be no conflict between fans whose wishes were different. And I think that would benefit everybody.

Socially, football has obviously changed a lot in the last 15 years, but I don't think that is all down to grounds being all-seater. Sky TV's money, commercialisation, and globalisation have all played a part in the gentrification too. Hooligans are banned, and grounds are well managed now, not like the days of people bunking over a wall, fighting all game, and buggering off home having smashed a few shop windows on the way.
Safely organised standing areas can put paid to the conflicts between fans who want to sit and stand, and I think that that can only be a good thing.

[Royalshow]

If you never want to stand you should sit in the west,Everyone in the north and east stand should be able to stand up when chanting or somthing exciting happens without having some fat guy sat behind them complain!

Are we ment to stay seated,even when we score?

[Royal Monk]

OI !! i sit in the WEST stand ..... and stand several times at most matches as do most people around me

[Coppelled Streets]

If you never want to stand you should sit in the west,Everyone in the north and east stand should be able to stand up when chanting or somthing exciting happens without having some fat guy sat behind them complain!

Are we ment to stay seated,even when we score?

If there's a part in the game that is exciting and I want to stand in relation to it, I will. If the muppet behind me doesn't like me standing for all of 5 seconds at a time then he/she can f**k off. I'm not changing for anyone!

[West Stand Man]

If you never want to stand you should sit in the west,Everyone in the north and east stand should be able to stand up when chanting or somthing exciting happens without having some fat guy sat behind them complain!

Are we ment to stay seated,even when we score?

If there's a part in the game that is exciting and I want to stand in relation to it, I will. If the muppet behind me doesn't like me standing for all of 5 seconds at a time then he/she can f**k off. I'm not changing for anyone!

You aren't really with all this complicated argument stuff are you? (Either of you).

[Coppelled Streets]

If you never want to stand you should sit in the west,Everyone in the north and east stand should be able to stand up when chanting or somthing exciting happens without having some fat guy sat behind them complain!

Are we ment to stay seated,even when we score?

If there's a part in the game that is exciting and I want to stand in relation to it, I will. If the muppet behind me doesn't like me standing for all of 5 seconds at a time then he/she can f**k off. I'm not changing for anyone!

You aren't really with all this complicated argument stuff are you? (Either of you).

I've entered into this argument enough times to be honest. But when it gets petty to the point of the person behind moaning when you stand for all of a few seconds, that really cheeses me off! I refuse to sit there and just applaud.
I can only hope and wish that we do get a stand only area one day in the future and I will move there with no hesitation.