Free Membership for Wigan and Derby

[papereyes]

I dunno.

Their stadium may be used in the proposed international tournaments in the next decade. Ours certainly won't be.

If you have to expand, then expansion is actually usually followed by increases in attendance. See, for example, Norwich a season or two ago.

But there's just something I'm not 100 % happy with in our expansion plans, in spite of the incredibly large potential catchment area, in spite of the potential use for other events.

And I find it all a bit when people are denying that there isn't a fall in demand, when, so far, it certainly appears to be the case. Even the most cursory glance at the attendances shows that it has fallen by some extent. Maybe we'll turn it around, but given there's 101 reasons on top of the team performances, maybe we won't.

[papereyes]

Further to that, I can imagine that Sunderland can expand as they have a more guaranteed income through new, rich owners, a larger fanbase and associated revenue streams such as merchandising.

Given that we're at the peak of our post-war attendances (for good reason) and Sunderland have attracted average attendances of over 40, 000 several times in the last decade, its two different cases.

I get the feeling we're at a key point in terms of size and where we're going. We have a massive potential fanbase, but not a massive fanbase. We have the potential to be in the Premiership for years and grow, but we're not necessarily going to be in the Premiership for years.

Expansion followed by relegation could be a bit of a kicking to the club when it needs it less. It could, also, on the other hand, act as a safety net if it goes wrong.

[Behindu]

But there's just something I'm not 100 % happy with in our expansion plans, in spite of the incredibly large potential catchment area, in spite of the potential use for other events.
.

I certainly don;t think the expansion should be 'rubber stamped' - it's a big business decision and the club need to be constantly reviewing if it is the right thing to do.
Schards made the point way back that attendances over the course of the season need to be taken into account, which makes his keen ness to jump on HNA and gloat at every opportunity a bit odd.
No one can deny that so far there has been a fairly small drop in attendances and results need to pick up to ensure that doesn't become a trend. The next couple of games don;t hold out much hope for bumper crowds (guaranteed poor away showing from Wigan and Sunday afternoon TV game against unattractive Derby).
I do think the 'has there been a drop in demand' is a mere sideshow though. It's not the main driver behind the extension and if we are averaging 20k plus and are top half at Xmas it will happen I'm sure. Luckily those in charge won;t look at this in terms of cheap poit scoring as seems to be the case on here...

[papereyes]

No one can deny that so far there has been a fairly small drop in attendances

A few hundred here, a few hundred there. A few thousand for the Everton game.

Some of the posts do appear to be denials, though. And that's just cheap point scoring from the other side.

[Behindu]

No one can deny that so far there has been a fairly small drop in attendances

A few hundred here, a few hundred there. A few thousand for the Everton game.

Some of the posts do appear to be denials, though. And that's just cheap point scoring from the other side.

Indeed, not at all one sided. I'm sure people who know those involved will be able to tell if it is all tongue in cheek or genuinely hotly disputed. One problem with discussions on the web- easy to mistake a bit of friendly banter for something else !

By the way Everton was 1600 below capacity, not a few thousand ! Still a 93% sell out so not too shabby !

[papereyes]

1600 ~ a few thousand. Maybe a couple of thousand. Semantics.

On the other hand, you've got the same denialist pointing out that we'd never miss Sidwell. Oh.

[Behindu]

1600 ~ a few thousand. Maybe a couple of thousand. Semantics.

On the other hand, you've got the same denialist pointing out that we'd never miss Sidwell. Oh.

Another interesting debate we were having yesterday !
To behonest I'd agree with others who have said it's Little we're missing rather than Sidwell. Sidwell doesn't seem to be setting the world alight at Chelsea despite having so many world classs players around him. I'd have him back tomorrow, but I don't think him going is the root of any problems.

[papereyes]

1600 ~ a few thousand. Maybe a couple of thousand. Semantics.

On the other hand, you've got the same denialist pointing out that we'd never miss Sidwell. Oh.

Another interesting debate we were having yesterday !
To behonest I'd agree with others who have said it's Little we're missing rather than Sidwell. Sidwell doesn't seem to be setting the world alight at Chelsea despite having so many world classs players around him. I'd have him back tomorrow, but I don't think him going is the root of any problems.

The response of some to the Sidwell departure reminds me of a dumped and bitter woman. Trying to convince themselves that he didn't make them happy.

Its OK. Gunnar is more than adequate.

Oh.

[Behindu]

The response of some to the Sidwell departure reminds me of a dumped and bitter woman. Trying to convince themselves that he didn't make them happy.

Its OK. Gunnar is more than adequate.

Oh.

I think equally there are some who over rated Sidwell, I would certainly argue that his peak for us was probably 3 seasons ago and he possibly didn;t dominate games on a consistent basis like he could and should have done in the last couple of years.

I do think the Sidwell / Harper pairing was key though and finding another pair who compliment each other so well won;t be easy. Bryn is a decent player but was never the Sidwell replacement. Yesterday was the first time I've really seen Fae and I was encouraged. All I've seen of Cisse was him leaving the pitch agaimst Chelsea so have no idea whether he is going to fill a gap ! Even if they are both good players can they form a partnership like we had with Siddy and Harps ?-

[papereyes]

Although both:

Sidwell doesn't seem to be setting the world alight at Chelsea despite having so many world classs players around him.

and

would certainly argue that his peak for us was probably 3 seasons ago and he possibly didn;t dominate games on a consistent basis like he could and should have done in the last couple of years.

are true, as is much of what you say, you cannot deny that the loss of Sidwell has weakened the first team until Cisse and Fae are actually playing and in the side on a regular basis. Certainly the two quotes highlighted do not actually argue against the opinion that his loss has weakened the side. They merely show that the transfer hasn't benefitted Chelsea that much and that he was better in a lower league.

Anyway.

Wrong sub-forum.

[Behindu]

I do think the Sidwell / Harper pairing was key

was meant to suggest that at the moment we haven;t really replaced Sidwell, therefore short term at least we are weaker without him.

Agree this is now on the wrong forum probably, I guess I got carried away having a fairly reasonable discussion with someone that hasn;t turned into pettiness within 3 posts !

Have to go now, but thanks for a sensible discussion !

[papereyes]

I'm here all week.

No, really, I am.

[Royal Lady]

As Papereyes has alluded, Schards and I are not "gloating" over the attendance figures - we are merely trying to get Woodcote to admit that despite his vociferous stance to the contrary, attendances ARE falling. Cheap shots about delving deeper into our pockets to get a flight home rather than the train don't really add to the discussion, more show Woodcote to be the person he is.

[Behindu]

As Papereyes has alluded, Schards and I are not "gloating" over the attendance figures - we are merely trying to get Woodcote to admit that despite his vociferous stance to the contrary, attendances ARE falling. Cheap shots about delving deeper into our pockets to get a flight home rather than the train don't really add to the discussion, more show Woodcote to be the person he is.

RL, I'm sure Woodcote will have a response justifying his stance too.
What posters think they are doing and how what they post portrays them are two different things (*), 'gloating' certainly describes the way posts come across when they are so frequent, so triumphal in tone and over such a minor issue.

* I'll be the first to concede I frequently think I'm making an astute, well informed observation when clearly the rest of the board just think I'm being a tw*t....

[The 17 Bus]

As with players, when it comes to supporters, form is temporary but class is permanent.

At last Mr Schards admits he is the better fan.

[Royal Lady]

As with players, when it comes to supporters, form is temporary but class is permanent.

At last Mr Schards admits he is the better fan.

As Finch hasn't been to a game this season, I'd say we're all better fans than Finch, the one-time self proposed best ever Reading Fan!

[mini _dariusz]

As with players, when it comes to supporters, form is temporary but class is permanent.

At last Mr Schards admits he is the better fan.

As Finch hasn't been to a game this season, I'd say we're all better fans than Finch, the one-time self proposed best ever Reading Fan!

That's not strictly true.

[shadesrwrf]

As with players, when it comes to supporters, form is temporary but class is permanent.

At last Mr Schards admits he is the better fan.

As Finch hasn't been to a game this season, I'd say we're all better fans than Finch, the one-time self proposed best ever Reading Fan!

I thought I hadn't seen him. Does he not have a season ticket anymore?

[Daniella]

Club have been talking arse. We must be the only club in world football who apaprently sells out every week and yet there is 2,000 empty seats every game, apaprently for "safety reasons", if you play in modern ground you can sell out every seat, or whats the point in having all seaters, more spin from a club on the downfall. We've peaked im afraid.

[Behindu]

Club have been talking arse. We must be the only club in world football who apaprently sells out every week and yet there is 2,000 empty seats every game, apaprently for "safety reasons", if you play in modern ground you can sell out every seat, or whats the point in having all seaters, more spin from a club on the downfall. We've peaked im afraid.

Bizarre.....