A bit worrying

[West Stand Man]

I personally think that talk about expansion was as much about giving a "come on" to potential buyers by laying out the potential here as it was about an actual action plan to be implemented by the current regime.

I think the nail has just taken a firm knock on the head here. The club is a more saleable asset with planning permission and designs for an extension - to show that growth is feasible.

[The Surgeon of Crowthorne]

I agree that it makes no sense to proceed with the expansion plans & that JM is an astute businessman. But what I don't understand is why they drew up the expansion plans in the first place. All of the arguments being put forward as to why the extension shouldn't be built applied in 2006 when the plans were prepared. This was first mooted in September 2006 when our status as a premiership club was by no means certain. Admittedly gates were good & demand for season tickets was reasonably high, but it was (even without hindsight) easy to see that this would fall & some gates had to be artificially stimulated by linked purchases. Preparation of plans & getting planning permission does not come cheap (I know from first hand experience of getting plans to extend my house!) so I wonder why they wasted this money.

I personally think that talk about expansion was as much about giving a "come on" to potential buyers by laying out the potential here as it was about an actual action plan to be implemented by the current regime.

You may have something there. Drawing up the plans at that moment made us look like a dynamic club, on the up & potentially more interesting for a buyer.
However, it does fall to pieces a bit if you don't keep the momentum going. A team struggling in the league with plans for an extension drawn up but without the enthusiasm or interest to follow through then makes the club look the complete opposite & risks highlighting the lack of growth potential.

[West Stand Man]

You may have something there. Drawing up the plans at that moment made us look like a dynamic club, on the up & potentially more interesting for a buyer.
However, it does fall to pieces a bit if you don't keep the momentum going. A team struggling in the league with plans for an extension drawn up but without the enthusiasm or interest to follow through then makes the club look the complete opposite & risks highlighting the lack of growth potential.

No it doesn't. The potential is still there, it is the will to expand and grow that may be lacking. It is not uncommonm for businesses to get designs and planning permission for changes that they don't wish to execute - just to add to add value by showing what can be achieved.

[Jerry St Clair]

"Reading FC have pleasure in offering the employees of *Jerry St Clair's Company* a free membercard and a £5 pound discount on tickets to......"

.....virtually every home game for rest of the season.

Which would seem to suggest that the ticket office have absolutely no confidence that they can sell out the stadium at normal prices, except for the biggest of games (Tottenham at home on the final day).

[The 17 Bus]

why dont they just slash the prices full stop, much easier way to do it.

You are not a company, just a quango.

[Jerry St Clair]

You are not a company, just a quango.

We're neither.

In reality we are a drain on the taxpayer.

[Schards#2]

Is there anyone out there left, literally anyone, who still thinks demand hasn't fallen?

Woodcote ROFLoyal?
Wycombe Royal?
Skyline?
Behindu?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

[The 17 Bus]

Not so much a fall in demand now, more a collapse. Goes to show how well RFC is run, and how well they look after their customers, clubs that show a lack of ambition usuallly lose support.

Fans walk away from overpriced football, about time as well.

The club as good as said they are not going to compete, we dont enter the spirit of the cups, we were not ready for Europe, we wont pay high wages, despite the high income, we have a plastic atmosphere, all in all not much of a day out anymore sadly. £7 to park, even more for 3 or more if they go by bus, money talks, and the fans are talking with their money.

I feel sorry for fans like you Schards, despite all your loyalty, the club have moved on, they really do not care, every football club has to look forward and be positive, RFC are treading water.

For years Mr Madejski declared football is a business, well JM when a business takes its eye off the customer the business is in trouble, and at this moment in time RFC are in trouble.

[Dirk Gently]

Ceratinly, at all clubs, fans are becoming much more more selective win which matches theyt watch. So while demand for the big matches is always there (although it may be different people causing that demand), not everyone wants to or can attend every match any more, so the less atrractive matches are harder to sell. Ditto away matches.

[RG30]

Last season, we had an an average gate of 23,829 which represented a 17.9% increase from the 2005-2006 Coca Cola Championship season. Our highest gate saw an attendance of 24,122. From what I remember, notable visiting teams who failed to sell out were Bolton (Poor away following) Blackburn (Poor away following) Wigan (Tuesday night) and Watford (end of season, already relegated).

This season, before the Portsmouth match, we got an average gate of 23,336 is down 2.1%. However we've had a crowd of 24,084 against Pompey, 24,135 against Man Utd, 21,893 against Bolton. Without doubt demand has fallen for the lesser games, including away followings from away fans (eg Boro).

Stadium expansion will definetely not go ahead, and if it does it will take one hell of an arguement to convince the Chairman.

[The 17 Bus]

The arguement for expansion is the same as it always was, at the moment we have the maximum ST holders that we can have, so we are unable to build that fanbase at the moment, many teams would bring 4000 fans if they had the whole of the South stand, we need to be progressive and look forward, long term a 24k stadium will not generate enough income for Premier survival.

If, and only if, the money is there it would have been good to take the risk, sadly that is not going to happen, and I am not sure that the fall in demand is the reason at all, more likely the fall in the teams chance of staying in this division at the current time.

[West Stand Man]

Not so much a fall in demand now, more a collapse.

Give figures to back that rash statement up. We are still seeing a pretty full Madejski Stadium, and I think that you'd need to show serious shortfalls before claiming a 'collapse'.

Maybe a touch of the glass not even half empty?

[Hoop Blah]

Is there anyone out there left, literally anyone, who still thinks demand hasn't fallen?

Woodcote ROFLoyal?
Wycombe Royal?
Skyline?
Behindu?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

Demand was always going to fall after what might've been our one and only season in the Premiership last season. As I've said a few times on this thread, my arguement wasn't that demand hadn't fallen just that your way of proving it was very flawed.

Even if we can't sell out everygame, or even all of them there is still a good arguement to expand, although it's an expensive risk which it looks like the club aren't willing to take a punt on right now.

[Wycombe Royal]

Is there anyone out there left, literally anyone, who still thinks demand hasn't fallen?

Woodcote ROFLoyal?
Wycombe Royal?
Skyline?
Behindu?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

I have said on a different topic that demand has weakened slightly this season as expected, but it is still sufficient for an expansion to the stadium to be made. However with a relegation battle looming (which it wasn't when this topic was started) obviously the whole situation changes. But obviously you saw that in your crystal ball last summer.

[West Stand Man]

Is there anyone out there left, literally anyone, who still thinks demand hasn't fallen?

Woodcote ROFLoyal?
Wycombe Royal?
Skyline?
Behindu?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

Fallen since when? Yes, the likelihood is that demand is lower at the moment (marginally) than this time last year. It is, however, still up on the previous season, and a long way up on 1999. It is well down on some years in the early 1900s when we drew crowds of approaching 30k at EP (what a frightening experience that must have been).
If you are going to make a comparative statement you need to set the parameters.

[Schards#2]

Is there anyone out there left, literally anyone, who still thinks demand hasn't fallen?

Woodcote ROFLoyal?
Wycombe Royal?
Skyline?
Behindu?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

Fallen since when? Yes, the likelihood is that demand is lower at the moment (marginally) than this time last year. It is, however, still up on the previous season, and a long way up on 1999. It is well down on some years in the early 1900s when we drew crowds of approaching 30k at EP (what a frightening experience that must have been).
If you are going to make a comparative statement you need to set the parameters.

Please refer to the previous 54 pages to see what the parameters are.

[Riseley]

How many times do you need to win this argument Schards?
We both stop counting empty seats at home games when we get to the 100's and that is just in the Upper west!
Expansion is about as likely as RL being diagnosed as having very healthy lungs and liver or Spacey sleeping with a woman.

[papereyes]

Is there anyone out there left, literally anyone, who still thinks demand hasn't fallen?

Woodcote ROFLoyal?
Wycombe Royal?
Skyline?
Behindu?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

I have said on a different topic that demand has weakened slightly this season as expected, but it is still sufficient for an expansion to the stadium to be made. However with a relegation battle looming (which it wasn't when this topic was started) obviously the whole situation changes. But obviously you saw that in your crystal ball last summer.

Given how much we strengthened, its not the most difficult prediction ever, is it?

[West Stand Man]

Please refer to the previous 54 pages to see what the parameters are.

So my case is proven (so far as I have stated it). Anyone taking a serious look at the longer term prospects of this club as a business will actually see GROWTH, not a drastic fall in attendance.

There rests the case for the educated few.

[Schards#2]

Please refer to the previous 54 pages to see what the parameters are.

So my case is proven (so far as I have stated it). Anyone taking a serious look at the longer term prospects of this club as a business will actually see GROWTH, not a drastic fall in attendance.

There rests the case for the educated few.

In the face of some strong competition, that post takes the prize as the biggest LOL on this thread