A bit worrying

[Schards#2]

I would expect season ticket sales .......... and to fall off a cliff if we go down

I think the phrase "stating the bleeding obvious" was invented for comments like that.

Makes you wonder about the IQ of people who insisted that the expansion must go ahead whether we are relegated or not doesn't it?

[Thaumagurist*]

.

[Royal Lady]

So Schards, by your logic that if Reading were to stay up and manage to build the extension, then at some point in the future if we should get relegated, we should downsize the stadium? I don't think it matters if we're relegated, we need long term thinking here.

No Spacey - we said all along, ad nauseum, that if we could have 2 or 3 years in the Prem where we are in a relatively good position, i.e. not fighting to stay up every season, and it looked like PL status would be a fairly long term thing, then expansion should be considered and implemented. If at some time in the future we were then relegated, despite the fact that we'd probably be playing to a half empty stadium a lot of the time, we would probably have recouped a lot of the money spent on the extension before going down so it wouldn't matter so much. Mind you, that was before JM suddenly declared a new extension would cost £35 million.

[Thaumagurist*]

.

[Schards#2]

So Schards, by your logic that if Reading were to stay up and manage to build the extension, then at some point in the future if we should get relegated, we should downsize the stadium? I don't think it matters if we're relegated, we need long term thinking here.

Why would it be logical to, having pissed a load of money up the wall building a pointless extention, piss a load more money up the wall taking it back down again?

My logic is clear, precise and entirely unemotional. The supreme businessman that is our chairman seems to have the sensible pragmatism.

Thank god he's in charge and not some of the dreamers who have contributed to this thread who would have thrown tens of millions at this pointless white elephant.

[The 17 Bus]

Thank god he's in charge and not some of the dreamers who have contributed to this thread who would have thrown tens of millions at this pointless white elephant.

Same chairman that has has decided not to throw money at keeping RFC in the Prem? Or would you like him to have done this?

[Royal Lady]

Thank god he's in charge and not some of the dreamers who have contributed to this thread who would have thrown tens of millions at this pointless white elephant.

Same chairman that has has decided not to throw money at keeping RFC in the Prem? Or would you like him to have done this?

Seats can't score goals. Empty or otherwise

[Quagmire]

So Schards, by your logic that if Reading were to stay up and manage to build the extension, then at some point in the future if we should get relegated, we should downsize the stadium? I don't think it matters if we're relegated, we need long term thinking here.

Why would it be logical to, having pissed a load of money up the wall building a pointless extention, piss a load more money up the wall taking it back down again?

My logic is clear, precise and entirely unemotional. The supreme businessman that is our chairman seems to have the sensible pragmatism.

Thank god he's in charge and not some of the dreamers who have contributed to this thread who would have thrown tens of millions at this pointless white elephant.

So you fully agree with his decision not to invest further funds on new players?

[Quagmire]

Seats can't score goals. Empty or otherwise

You miss the rather simple point. On one hand Schards#2 as advocating that the expansion was a bad idea as our Chairman appears to have changed his mind about it (this proving he was right all along). On the other he (and many others) criticise his approach to funding transfers thus not taking every decision he makes as 100% right.

You can't have it both ways.

[jonboy29red]

i see the special offers are turning up now on the os for tickets

[Platypuss]

Seeing as it appears we were never going to splash the cash on new players we might as well have extended the stadium. Investment in something >>>> no investment at all.

Never mind the seats, I'd want it just to have adequately-sized concourses.

[Schards#2]

Seats can't score goals. Empty or otherwise

You miss the rather simple point. On one hand Schards#2 as advocating that the expansion was a bad idea as our Chairman appears to have changed his mind about it (this proving he was right all along). On the other he (and many others) criticise his approach to funding transfers thus not taking every decision he makes as 100% right.

You can't have it both ways.

The extention is a business decision. Mr Madejski is an experienced, successful business and has clearly made the right decision in accordance with his proven expertise.

With regard to throwing money at players, firstly, this strays into an area requiring football expertise of which he has little and, secondly, we don't know how much expenditure he was prepared to sanction in any case.

If he would not sanction additional spending, I think it's a mistake but a mistake born of footballing naivety rather than lack of business acumen.

[The Surgeon of Crowthorne]

I agree that it makes no sense to proceed with the expansion plans & that JM is an astute businessman. But what I don't understand is why they drew up the expansion plans in the first place. All of the arguments being put forward as to why the extension shouldn't be built applied in 2006 when the plans were prepared. This was first mooted in September 2006 when our status as a premiership club was by no means certain. Admittedly gates were good & demand for season tickets was reasonably high, but it was (even without hindsight) easy to see that this would fall & some gates had to be artificially stimulated by linked purchases. Preparation of plans & getting planning permission does not come cheap (I know from first hand experience of getting plans to extend my house!) so I wonder why they wasted this money.

[Dirk Gently]

Perhaps asset with planning permission is more sellable than asset on its own.

[The 17 Bus]

Seats can't score goals. Empty or otherwise

You miss the rather simple point. On one hand Schards#2 as advocating that the expansion was a bad idea as our Chairman appears to have changed his mind about it (this proving he was right all along). On the other he (and many others) criticise his approach to funding transfers thus not taking every decision he makes as 100% right.

You can't have it both ways.

The extention is a business decision. Mr Madejski is an experienced, successful business and has clearly made the right decision in accordance with his proven expertise.

With regard to throwing money at players, firstly, this strays into an area requiring football expertise of which he has little and, secondly, we don't know how much expenditure he was prepared to sanction in any case.

If he would not sanction additional spending, I think it's a mistake but a mistake born of footballing naivety rather than lack of business acumen.

The spending on players is also a business decision, after 18 years at RFC I think it is a bit of a statement to say that he has little football expertise.

To assume that his business decisions are right, due to his success tends to overlook that he will have made the wrong decisions at times in the past as well, all business people do. He will have made wrong business decisions at RFC as well, it is not really that important.

The expansion will not go ahead at this time, should we go down it will be the right decision, should we stay up it could well be the wrong decision, perhaps the real question is do RFC want to be a big club or not, because it will not happen with the size stadium that we currently have. The current size was chosen when football was a different beast, I feel sure that JM has been delighted overall in the size of the crowds and the income generated by those crowds.

There is more to an extension than seats tho, the conference facilities are currently very well subscribed, the extension to the East would have given more space to add to those, result, more income. As PP said a bigger concourse would be nice, result probably more sales of drinks and food, maybe we could stick a large conservatory on the East.

[The Surgeon of Crowthorne]

Perhaps asset with planning permission is more sellable than asset on its own.

I don't think I buy that. It turn out to be that difficult for the club to get it &, if you're actually going to build the thing, the cost wouldn't be a large proportion of the overall building costs. I doubt that the club would see its value increased by much as a result of having these plans with permission, if at all.

[Dirk Gently]

Perhaps asset with planning permission is more sellable than asset on its own.

I don't think I buy that. It turn out to be that difficult for the club to get it &, if you're actually going to build the thing, the cost wouldn't be a large proportion of the overall building costs. I doubt that the club would see its value increased by much as a result of having these plans with permission, if at all.

Not necessarily. The actual cost to the club may not have been that significant. In the JM group there are no doubt lots of specialists in this field so it may not have involved paying outside contractors, it may just have been a case of utilising spare capacity.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the designs were provided by the company looking to build the thing - on a large contract that's often part of the sales process, so no cost to the club.

As to the time spent by people in the club, as far as JM is concerned that is an unlimited resource that has no extra cost for him.

[The Surgeon of Crowthorne]

Perhaps asset with planning permission is more sellable than asset on its own.

I don't think I buy that. It turn out to be that difficult for the club to get it &, if you're actually going to build the thing, the cost wouldn't be a large proportion of the overall building costs. I doubt that the club would see its value increased by much as a result of having these plans with permission, if at all.

Not necessarily. The actual cost to the club may not have been that significant. In the JM group there are no doubt lots of specialists in this field so it may not have involved paying outside contractors, it may just have been a case of utilising spare capacity.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the designs were provided by the company looking to build the thing - on a large contract that's often part of the sales process, so no cost to the club.

As to the time spent by people in the club, as far as JM is concerned that is an unlimited resource that has no extra cost for him.

Fair points, but no one's time comes for free. If you're getting one of your staff working on something for you, then they can't be working on something else that could be earning a fee.
If a building firm offered a drawing service they would still charge for it, particularly on something this big. They may offer a reduction if you use them for both drawing and building, but you'd need to do both to get the discount.
I still think the drawing up of the plans, the consultation and planning permission would have amounted to a 7-figure sum.

And before PP gets on my case, that's a guess based on the cost to build & the amount I was charged for plans for my extension!

[Dirk Gently]

I don't think I buy that. It turn out to be that difficult for the club to get it &, if you're actually going to build the thing, the cost wouldn't be a large proportion of the overall building costs. I doubt that the club would see its value increased by much as a result of having these plans with permission, if at all.

Not necessarily. The actual cost to the club may not have been that significant. In the JM group there are no doubt lots of specialists in this field so it may not have involved paying outside contractors, it may just have been a case of utilising spare capacity.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the designs were provided by the company looking to build the thing - on a large contract that's often part of the sales process, so no cost to the club.

As to the time spent by people in the club, as far as JM is concerned that is an unlimited resource that has no extra cost for him.

Fair points, but no one's time comes for free. If you're getting one of your staff working on something for you, then they can't be working on something else that could be earning a fee.
If a building firm offered a drawing service they would still charge for it, particularly on something this big. They may offer a reduction if you use them for both drawing and building, but you'd need to do both to get the discount.
I still think the drawing up of the plans, the consultation and planning permission would have amounted to a 7-figure sum.

And before PP gets on my case, that's a guess based on the cost to build & the amount I was charged for plans for my extension!

You may be right. Whilst this is complete speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a good time for JM to be able to call in freebies, considering he's currently in the market for a construction company to re-build the whole of Station Hill, etc.

[Vision]

I agree that it makes no sense to proceed with the expansion plans & that JM is an astute businessman. But what I don't understand is why they drew up the expansion plans in the first place. All of the arguments being put forward as to why the extension shouldn't be built applied in 2006 when the plans were prepared. This was first mooted in September 2006 when our status as a premiership club was by no means certain. Admittedly gates were good & demand for season tickets was reasonably high, but it was (even without hindsight) easy to see that this would fall & some gates had to be artificially stimulated by linked purchases. Preparation of plans & getting planning permission does not come cheap (I know from first hand experience of getting plans to extend my house!) so I wonder why they wasted this money.

I personally think that talk about expansion was as much about giving a "come on" to potential buyers by laying out the potential here as it was about an actual action plan to be implemented by the current regime.