MACSTATS

[Snowball]

But I am NOT saying Shane is a great player or our best player
or even our best striker, or our most valuable striker.

I was on record as saying that Doyle and Hunt were (a) better
and (b) our best combination up front in a 4-4-2

What I AM saying, and ALL I am saying, is Shane Long's goals per minute.
NOT for a few games but over 4 seasons and the rag-end of the season before
add up together to a guy who simply gets goals, regularly, often, at a high strike rate

It's also a fact that Shane wins penalties, chases down, does great defensive work
and gets assists.

No he doesn't have silky skills or a fabulous footballing brain, he's raw, powerful talent
and gets a terribel deal on this list, always has, just like Kebe.

This list "decides" to hate a player, end of. You see that with the recent discipline issues
with Shane, Griffin, MacAnuff

[papereyes]

Andy Griffin - 2 yellow cards in 10 games. Discipline issues. LOL WUT

[Snowball]

Ffiteen games, now.

I believe we WON at West Brom and we WON at Liverpool
but there are jokers on this list who say, nah, we drew.

Some day we'll lose 6-1 in extra time and I shall say, no, we drew....


Played 15 Won 7 Drawn 4 Lost 4 Point Equivalent 25 Points @ 1.67 points a game

Equals 76.7 Points in 46 games, good enough for 4th/5th last season


Consider too, that Mac D3 L1 in his first 4 games (4-7)

His last 11 games since that win-breakthrough ave been W7 D1 L3 22 points @ 2 points a game, a 92 point season!!!!

His last 12 games W7 D2 L3 = 23 points @1.92 per game = 88 point season (2nd last year)


01 1 1 D A Bristol
02 1 1 D H Swansea
03 1 4 L A Plymouth
04 1 1 D H Liverpool
05 2 1 W A Liverpool
06 1 2 L A Forest
07 1 0 W H Burnley
08 0 3 L A Sheff Utd
09 1 0 W H Barnsley
10 2 1 W A Doncaster
11 2 1 W H Plymouth
12 2 2 D H WBA
13 3 1 W A Crystal Palace
14 0 2 L A Blackpool
15 3 2 W A WBA

[brendywendy]

so how dya like them onions you muthas

[Snowball]

But FA Cup games are "meaningless" (and being in the quarter-final is meaningless)

and you can't use a point equivalent from FA Cup games to measure "points per game"

and we only drew at WBA and Liverpool and in the FA Cup they use a different ball, and...




Frankly, if Mac keeps this up he should be manager of the season (and no, I didn't expect this)

[Wimb]

But I am NOT saying Shane is a great player or our best player
or even our best striker, or our most valuable striker.

I was on record as saying that Doyle and Hunt were (a) better
and (b) our best combination up front in a 4-4-2

What I AM saying, and ALL I am saying, is Shane Long's goals per minute.
NOT for a few games but over 4 seasons and the rag-end of the season before
add up together to a guy who simply gets goals, regularly, often, at a high strike rate

It's also a fact that Shane wins penalties, chases down, does great defensive work
and gets assists.

No he doesn't have silky skills or a fabulous footballing brain, he's raw, powerful talent
and gets a terribel deal on this list, always has, just like Kebe.

This list "decides" to hate a player, end of. You see that with the recent discipline issues
with Shane, Griffin, MacAnuff

That's fair enough, I apologise for the assumption that you were over-rating Long.

I do see your point on his ratio but again as I've mentioned it doesn't disguise the fact that he's been ineffective in many games, which is an indisputible fact for those that have seen him play but which is something that stats can disguise.

But we all have seen the positive sides of Shane Long and that's no doubt why Coppell had faith with him, why Brendan gave him the No9 shirt and why MaccyD holds him in such high regard.

Sadly, just like Kebe, the fact that he does have such ability yet can go missing for 6 months or in the biggest games is the very reason people brand him shite. You rarely hear people slagging off Rasiak simply because, in my opinion, people understand he's not go the skills and abilities he once had and therefore expectations are low. The same way you don't slag off a 1980's Ford Fiesta when it breaks down yet you'd be livid if your 2010 model did.


On your MACSTATS I don't see why you find the notion that the result after 90 minutes is the 'real result' so hard to understand.

In a league game you get points based on performances over a 90 minute period. Therefore if you are going down the route, for some unexplainable reason, of treating cup ties in the same way as league games then you have to play by the same rules. Otherwise, who's to say we wouldn't have won in 120 minutes against Brizzle or lost in 120 minutes against Swansea? Out of interest would you count a win on pens as a Win and a loss on pens as a defeat?

Anyway, this is turning into a LOLong thread when it's about MaccyD, and nobody can dispute one brilliant stat, that we're in an FA Cup Quarter Final!

[Snowball]

As I've already said... the day someone calls a 5-1 defeat in extra time "a draw" he or she will be pilloried

We win the TIE and that's good enough for me.

You could argue that we play for the extra time, just get that goal and then win it in ET

[papereyes]

so how dya like them onions you muthas

I dunno. I really hate under-cooked onions. Bitter aftertaste.

[Platypuss]

As I've already said... the day someone calls a 5-1 defeat in extra time "a draw" he or she will be pilloried

We win the TIE and that's good enough for me.

You could argue that we play for the extra time, just get that goal and then win it in ET

[Barry the bird boggler]

Never include cup games in stats concerning league runs as the dynamic is totally different.

Overall the stat is simply that Heston has made us harder to beat and more solid as a team, as a result we seem to be able to score more regularly and our results have picked up slightly.

[CMRoyal]

As I've already said... the day someone calls a 5-1 defeat in extra time "a draw" he or she will be pilloried

We win the TIE and that's good enough for me.

You could argue that we play for the extra time, just get that goal and then win it in ET

I gues this underlines why Cup games should be excluded from stats about league form - you said it yourself right there, the approach to a potentially 120-minute game is liable to be different to a 90-minute one (especially as it's elimination not points that are at stake).

Stick to the league stats - the Cup is just a glorious diversion.

[Snowball]

I simply can't agree that getting to the quarter finals of the FA Cup ISN'T a significant stat
when looking at how Mac manages

[papereyes]

I simply can't agree that getting to the quarter finals of the FA Cup ISN'T a significant stat
when looking at how Mac manages

Oh come on. Its not a comparable statistic - you are not comparing like for like. However, it is an incredibly useful gobbet of information that can be used to frame the other data accordingly.

And most football 'stats' are nothing of the sort.

[BR2]

Not sure whether this has been said already but stats always seem to be only positive stats.
In analysing Long's returns on the pitch Snowball hasn't taken into account the negative stats about Shane Long.
In 2 games his impetuousness has affected the result in a negative way.
How many times does he give possession away to the opposition when trying to pass the ball?
How many free-kicks does he give away by fouling or being offside?
How many times does he shoot when he could have passed to a better placed colleague?
How many times does he mis-control the ball when it is played up to him?

Simply taking goals relative to minutes played is a stat,a positive-only stat and therefore cannot be the be-all-and-end-all of a player's contribution.
I favour the idea that what we see is more important and what we see is a very limited footballer who has a few games where he looks a player and then reverts back to type.

The stats however relating to our manager are vaguely interesting but we already know that he has done better than Rodgers simply because we have seen for our very eyes an improvement both in terms of performance and results.
So far he has done a really good job.

[Snowball]

Since his return to form he

Scored BOTH goals in the defeat of Plymouth

Scored the only goal to beat Barnsley

Won the penalty at Liverpool and scored the winner

Scored a goal and made the assist for the winner at Doncaster


This is not minutes/goals, this is MATCH-WINNING performances

[Stranded]

I simply can't agree that getting to the quarter finals of the FA Cup ISN'T a significant stat
when looking at how Mac manages

Has anyone said it isn't significant - just that it skews the stats you are presenting because they are different competitions with different rules and 2 of the results were acheived in a way that simply isn't possible in the league.

I have no quibble with stating the facts that the ties were won and showing his record, which is impressive, but I totally understand the arguement that you cannot associate league points to the result when it was acheived outside of the parameters possible in a league competition.

[CMRoyal]

I simply can't agree that getting to the quarter finals of the FA Cup ISN'T a significant stat
when looking at how Mac manages

I didn't say that, I said I don't think Cup stats can be included in analysis of league form. There are too many other variables involved.

[CMRoyal]

Since his return to form he

Scored BOTH goals in the defeat of Plymouth

Scored the only goal to beat Barnsley

Won the penalty at Liverpool and scored the winner

Scored a goal and made the assist for the winner at Doncaster

Got himself banned for four matches for a stupid foul.

In my opinion there is a decent argument for including those four games in any statistical analysis given that he has a direct bearing on the no goals in four games he'll "achieve" as a result of the ill-advised challenge.

[Wimb]

Since his return to form he

Scored BOTH goals in the defeat of Plymouth

Scored the only goal to beat Barnsley

Won the penalty at Liverpool and scored the winner

Scored a goal and made the assist for the winner at Doncaster

Got himself banned for four matches for a stupid foul.

In my opinion there is a decent argument for including those four games in any statistical analysis given that he has a direct bearing on the no goals in four games he'll "achieve" as a result of the ill-advised challenge.

Agreed, not to mention we could have gained more points up at Derby or in any of the numerous matches before he came to 'form' if he had been as fit and fired up as he is now.

You can slate Rodgers methods all you want but its up to the player to be in the best shape possible and arguably he wasn't in the right shape when the season started.

[Snowball]

A League table covering ONLY league games, starting with Mac's first game



P W D L CS FtS F A GD Pt PPG
1 Nottingham Forest 12 8 1 3 6 4 19 6 +13 25 2.08
2 West Bromwich Albion 11 6 3 2 3 0 20 13 +7 21 1.91
3 Swansea City 11 5 6 0 7 2 11 4 +7 21 1.91
4 Newcastle United 11 5 5 1 5 3 21 10 +11 20 1.82
5 Coventry City 12 6 3 3 6 2 13 12 +1 21 1.75
6 Leicester City 11 4 5 2 3 4 13 8 +5 17 1.55
7 Ipswich Town 11 4 4 3 2 1 15 15 0 16 1.45
8 Sheffield Wednesday 11 5 1 5 1 4 13 15 -2 16 1.45
9 Crystal Palace 10 4 2 4 3 4 10 10 0 14 1.40
10 Reading 10 4 2 4 1 2 12 16 -4 14 1.40
11 Blackpool 12 4 4 4 4 2 17 15 +2 16 1.33
12 Barnsley 12 5 1 6 3 1 16 16 0 16 1.33
13 Cardiff City 10 3 4 3 2 2 18 16 +2 13 1.30
14 Plymouth Argyle 11 4 2 5 2 3 13 11 +2 14 1.27
15 Derby County 11 4 2 5 4 5 14 14 0 14 1.27
16 Sheffield United 11 4 2 5 4 2 12 13 -1 14 1.27
17 Middlesbrough 12 4 3 5 3 5 13 12 +1 15 1.25
18 Scunthorpe United 12 4 3 5 2 2 16 21 -5 15 1.25
19 Doncaster Rovers 11 4 1 6 4 3 11 13 -2 13 1.18
20 Watford 9 2 3 4 3 2 13 12 +1 9 1.00
21 Bristol City 11 2 5 4 1 4 12 20 -8 11 1.00
22 Peterborough United 11 3 1 7 1 6 11 19 -8 10 0.91
23 Preston North End 11 3 1 7 3 5 11 23 -12 10 0.91
24 Queens Park Rangers 10 2 2 6 0 5 8 18 -10 8 0.80