Do we need a new defensive coach?

[CavershamRoyal]

English pundits blame every goal on defending whether it's a great goal or not.

That, though, is also true.....

This is the first post I've seen from you since I've joined.

I'm awfully sorry, I seem to have stolen your username...

[Royalwaster]

The defence wasn't great the year we went up. At times it was decent enough yes, but we rode our luck a lot of time.

How many games did we leave that season thinking "how the hell did we win that?"

Truth was we got outplayed for large parts of games that season but still came away with results.

I'm not sure anyone really knows how we went up that season. We were far from the best team, we had no really outstanding players. I guess you could say we often soaked up the pressure and took our (usually fewer) chances.

It just shows what you can do if you put a run together, especially in this league. Confidence is everything, we scraped a couple of wins when Roberts arrived and the momentum kept building and took us right into contention. The league is so close you can be nowhere at Christmas and end up promoted in May, regardless of how good the team really is.

Completely agree - that's my view too. I remember taking friends to matches and they said that we'd not looked very good but still come away with the win - I think it was all about self-belief and quite a bit of luck. The games against Southampton and Brighton away fall right into the category - totally dominated in both and yet we took 6 points away with us. At home, I remember Leicester dominating us, yet we scored 3 goals from 3 shots on target.

[Caversham Royal]

I think you're too easily astonished. I can still remember the defence being pretty shocking at times even when Reading went up under Maccy-D. One of the perpetual arguments I've noticed rumbling round on this site is whether Reading deserved to go up that year on the merits of their performances or whether they rode their luck a lot of the time with the run of results that got them above a stuttering Southampton & Wet Sham. If they were being coached properly defensively that season, then those same coaches seemed to forget how to do their stuff once we went up. But that's just a guess....

Our defence was excellent that year. Pearce and Gorkss were really good. The midfield also performed their defensive duties well. Harte was a bit of a liability against the long ball but his positioning helped out a lot. We didn't have a settled right back, but none of the four I remember us using did badly.

It was going forward that we had problems, at least before Roberts arrived. We developed a genuine game plan, rather than "give it to Kebe and hope he gives it to Le Fondre".

Once we went up, not only were we up against a greater quality of attacker, but Gorkss had finished the season badly and only declined after promotion, and neither Gunter nor Cummings is good enough in the top flight. We also played a very attacking style, and McDermott's refusal to play our best midfielder or our best defender meant we were constantly selecting weakened teams and couldn't use 4-5-1. We actually had a decent back line when Shorey, Mariappa and Pearce were all available, and a good defensive record with three in midfield.

So, simply put, the problem was improved opposition, an entirely different strategy, and mismanagement. Not Gibbs.

Or.......simply put of course......you're very much in the camp that say RFC went up on the merits of their performances that season & fair enough.
I wouldn't argue that, on paper, Reading's defensive record could be seen as excellent (particularly during the run that led to going up), but many of the defensive performances were far from excellent at times. You mention part of the problem was improved opposition. It could be argued that the defensive problems were already there & that playing against better opposition more regularly made them more obvious, where as opponents at Championship level may not always have been able to take advantage of Reading's deficiencies as often.
Again, I would reiterate my original point which was really just that any defensive problems RFC have aren't solely down to Adkins as some would contend but ones that have been there for a while now. But it is now the current coaching staff's responsibility to sort it out.

[Caversham Royal]

English pundits blame every goal on defending whether it's a great goal or not.

That, though, is also true.....

This is the first post I've seen from you since I've joined.

I'm awfully sorry, I seem to have stolen your username...

Not a problem. At least it proves there are at least two Reading fans in Caversham....

[Caversham Royal]

I think you're too easily astonished. I can still remember the defence being pretty shocking at times even when Reading went up under Maccy-D. One of the perpetual arguments I've noticed rumbling round on this site is whether Reading deserved to go up that year on the merits of their performances or whether they rode their luck a lot of the time with the run of results that got them above a stuttering Southampton & Wet Sham. If they were being coached properly defensively that season, then those same coaches seemed to forget how to do their stuff once we went up. But that's just a guess....

Agreed. You're pretty much spot on with your posts on this page, despite what others say.

I'm not saying we do need a new defensive coach, because Adkins and his team seem to gradually fixing the problem, along with many other issues, which I for one did anticipate when he took over.

The McDermott lovers won't hear a bad word against him, so their incredibly biased and blinded view counts for nothing.

Ta for that!

[RoyalinBracknell]

I think you're too easily astonished. I can still remember the defence being pretty shocking at times even when Reading went up under Maccy-D. One of the perpetual arguments I've noticed rumbling round on this site is whether Reading deserved to go up that year on the merits of their performances or whether they rode their luck a lot of the time with the run of results that got them above a stuttering Southampton & Wet Sham. If they were being coached properly defensively that season, then those same coaches seemed to forget how to do their stuff once we went up. But that's just a guess....

Our defence was excellent that year. Pearce and Gorkss were really good. The midfield also performed their defensive duties well. Harte was a bit of a liability against the long ball but his positioning helped out a lot. We didn't have a settled right back, but none of the four I remember us using did badly.

It was going forward that we had problems, at least before Roberts arrived. We developed a genuine game plan, rather than "give it to Kebe and hope he gives it to Le Fondre".

Once we went up, not only were we up against a greater quality of attacker, but Gorkss had finished the season badly and only declined after promotion, and neither Gunter nor Cummings is good enough in the top flight. We also played a very attacking style, and McDermott's refusal to play our best midfielder or our best defender meant we were constantly selecting weakened teams and couldn't use 4-5-1. We actually had a decent back line when Shorey, Mariappa and Pearce were all available, and a good defensive record with three in midfield.

So, simply put, the problem was improved opposition, an entirely different strategy, and mismanagement. Not Gibbs.

Or.......simply put of course......you're very much in the camp that say RFC went up on the merits of their performances that season & fair enough.
I wouldn't argue that, on paper, Reading's defensive record could be seen as excellent (particularly during the run that led to going up), but many of the defensive performances were far from excellent at times. You mention part of the problem was improved opposition. It could be argued that the defensive problems were already there & that playing against better opposition more regularly made them more obvious, where as opponents at Championship level may not always have been able to take advantage of Reading's deficiencies as often.
Again, I would reiterate my original point which was really just that any defensive problems RFC have aren't solely down to Adkins as some would contend but ones that have been there for a while now. But it is now the current coaching staff's responsibility to sort it out.

The argument some have put forward is we weren't great going forwards and struggled to keep possession - if true then surely that just enhances the strength of our defence that season? We were able to defend well and were clinical in taking our chances when they came - just look at our first two goals away to Southampton that year. From memory Pearce was our Player of the Season that year and the likes of Federici and Gorkss were leading contenders too - words like shocking and woeful just aren't reasonable descriptions at all in my view. There might have been slight moments of fortune - though I'd say if anything more things went against us than for us in the run-in in terms of things I might describe as 'luck' - but really you don't win 15 out of 17 games through luck, nor do you get 9 clean sheets in that run through luck.

We've put together a strong number of clean sheets together under Adkins recently - more of the same please.

[Caversham Royal]

You do seem to like your clean sheets. You must have a very impressive washing line out back..

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Marked improvement since I started this thread fo sho...

[Armadillo Roadkill]

To address the original question - I think it's pretty self evident the answer is "yes, we very much do need a new defensive coach."

[Royal Lady]

To address the original question - I think it's pretty self evident the answer is "yes, we very much do need a new defensive coach."

Beigemobile!!! How the devil are you? And your son, A, he's probably about 16 now is he? LOLz.

[Reading4eva]

Yes. What about the Mad Dog

[leon]

Again, I would reiterate my original point which was really just that any defensive problems RFC have aren't solely down to Adkins as some would contend but ones that have been there for a while now. But it is now the current coaching staff's responsibility to sort it out.

Let's get this clear.

The team and coaching staff from 2-3 years ago - a different team (bar 2 players) and a different manager, assistant and staff (bar SB) are a major contributory factor to our current defensive issues?

Could you explain please.....?

[floyd__streete]

Again, I would reiterate my original point which was really just that any defensive problems RFC have aren't solely down to Adkins as some would contend but ones that have been there for a while now. But it is now the current coaching staff's responsibility to sort it out.

Let's get this clear.

The team and coaching staff from 2-3 years ago - a different team (bar 2 players) and a different manager, assistant and staff (bar SB) are a major contributory factor to our current defensive issues?

Could you explain please.....?

+1.

The excuse-making for Nigel Adkins shows Pravda-esque levels of conspiracy theorist spin.

[Caversham Royal]

Again, I would reiterate my original point which was really just that any defensive problems RFC have aren't solely down to Adkins as some would contend but ones that have been there for a while now. But it is now the current coaching staff's responsibility to sort it out.

Let's get this clear.

The team and coaching staff from 2-3 years ago - a different team (bar 2 players) and a different manager, assistant and staff (bar SB) are a major contributory factor to our current defensive issues?

Could you explain please.....?

+1.

The excuse-making for Nigel Adkins shows Pravda-esque levels of conspiracy theorist spin.

To be honest, I'm getting extremely bored explaining myself. My original point, which seems an eternity ago now, was simply a response to 'mighty Mr Streete' droning on how Reading have been woeful for the entirety of Adkins time simply because he doesn't rate him. Fair enough if you don't, I'm not making excuses for Adkins & I'm not especially pro-Adkins. All I meant was that Reading have had defensive issues for some time (predating Adkins appointment), it's not a problem he caused. It is, though, now his responsibility to solve it & at present it seems progress in that area remains slow to say the least. As for all that other guff above about me saying the coaching staff, players, etc from Maccy-D's time are a major contributory factor to our current situation, that's not what I said or meant at all. And as for that team being different bar 2 players? Fed, Pearce, Cummings, Gorks (I count him as he played under Adkins last season), Gunter (played under Maccy-D in Prem & now also Adkins), Morrison (was still an RFC player (I think!) when this thread started as was McCarthy & both played under both regimes), and that's just defensive folk. That hardly counts as 'bar 2 players'....and that's without Guthrie, Akpan, HRK, Pog, McCleary & Karacan who've also been on the squad since the last Prem season or before. Yep, completely different set of players.
There's an explanation
Ps; as someone who used to watch the real Floyd Streete regularly, we could do with his no-nonsense approach to defending in many ways at the moment. Not always pretty, but did the job!

[leon]

Let's get this clear.

The team and coaching staff from 2-3 years ago - a different team (bar 2 players) and a different manager, assistant and staff (bar SB) are a major contributory factor to our current defensive issues?

Could you explain please.....?

+1.

The excuse-making for Nigel Adkins shows Pravda-esque levels of conspiracy theorist spin.

To be honest, I'm getting extremely bored explaining myself. My original point, which seems an eternity ago now, was simply a response to 'mighty Mr Streete' droning on how Reading have been woeful for the entirety of Adkins time simply because he doesn't rate him. Fair enough if you don't, I'm not making excuses for Adkins & I'm not especially pro-Adkins. All I meant was that Reading have had defensive issues for some time (predating Adkins appointment), it's not a problem he caused. It is, though, now his responsibility to solve it & at present it seems progress in that area remains slow to say the least. As for all that other guff above about me saying the coaching staff, players, etc from Maccy-D's time are a major contributory factor to our current situation, that's not what I said or meant at all. And as for that team being different bar 2 players? Fed, Pearce, Cummings, Gorks (I count him as he played under Adkins last season), Gunter (played under Maccy-D in Prem & now also Adkins), Morrison (was still an RFC player (I think!) when this thread started as was McCarthy & both played under both regimes), and that's just defensive folk. That hardly counts as 'bar 2 players'....and that's without Guthrie, Akpan, HRK, Pog, McCleary & Karacan who've also been on the squad since the last Prem season or before. Yep, completely different set of players.
There's an explanation
Ps; as someone who used to watch the real Floyd Streete regularly, we could do with his no-nonsense approach to defending in many ways at the moment. Not always pretty, but did the job![/quote

I looked at the first team line up the season we got promoted under BMc - when allegedly these defensive issues started and guess what, the team has changed dramatically.

Of the defensive players you've listed (6) 2 have left and the remainder have had more than enough time with Adkins to actually learn his system. No excuses.

And agreed, we could use some no nonsense defending.

[Caversham Royal]

leon
Let's get this clear.

The team and coaching staff from 2-3 years ago - a different team (bar 2 players) and a different manager, assistant and staff (bar SB) are a major contributory factor to our current defensive issues?

Could you explain please.....?

floyd
+1.

The excuse-making for Nigel Adkins shows Pravda-esque levels of conspiracy theorist spin.

me!
To be honest, I'm getting extremely bored explaining myself. My original point, which seems an eternity ago now, was simply a response to 'mighty Mr Streete' droning on how Reading have been woeful for the entirety of Adkins time simply because he doesn't rate him. Fair enough if you don't, I'm not making excuses for Adkins & I'm not especially pro-Adkins. All I meant was that Reading have had defensive issues for some time (predating Adkins appointment), it's not a problem he caused. It is, though, now his responsibility to solve it & at present it seems progress in that area remains slow to say the least. As for all that other guff above about me saying the coaching staff, players, etc from Maccy-D's time are a major contributory factor to our current situation, that's not what I said or meant at all. And as for that team being different bar 2 players? Fed, Pearce, Cummings, Gorks (I count him as he played under Adkins last season), Gunter (played under Maccy-D in Prem & now also Adkins), Morrison (was still an RFC player (I think!) when this thread started as was McCarthy & both played under both regimes), and that's just defensive folk. That hardly counts as 'bar 2 players'....and that's without Guthrie, Akpan, HRK, Pog, McCleary & Karacan who've also been on the squad since the last Prem season or before. Yep, completely different set of players.
There's an explanation
Ps; as someone who used to watch the real Floyd Streete regularly, we could do with his no-nonsense approach to defending in many ways at the moment. Not always pretty, but did the job![/quote

leon
I looked at the first team line up the season we got promoted under BMc - when allegedly these defensive issues started and guess what, the team has changed dramatically.

Of the defensive players you've listed (6) 2 have left and the remainder have had more than enough time with Adkins to actually learn his system. No excuses.

And agreed, we could use some no nonsense defending.[/quote][/quote][/quote]




me again

One thing I'm confused about is who alleged that Reading's defensive issues started under Maccy-D, 'cos it wasn't me. I only said they existed before the current manager. Perhaps I should blame the Branfoot era for being the root cause of everything, or maybe McGhee for trying to get Reading to play a nice passing style of play, or maybe Pardew for fecking off to Wet Sham when he did.....& see who keeps arguing the toss then, I'm sure somebody would.....
In the end, I wouldn't really say it's the fault of a particular set of players, coaching staff or whoever, but the problems are there, were there before Adkins took charge & he now needs to step up to the task of sorting them.
No-nonsense defending.....perhaps the downward spiral started when Martin Hicks stopped playing for us.....

[Pandoras Box]

Thing is, I doubt if there is one team in the championship where the fans don't moan about the defence, unless of course their strikers are doing enough business that it takes the focus of of the defence and makes it irrelevant. Truth be told , Champs football does not produce fantastic defensive line ups - there are many teams that have shipped 3+ goals in matches this year - if they were inpenetrable they would be in the Prem by now.

[sandman]

That's a new one, "it's not Nige's fault, it's the leagues fault"

[peterroyal76]

That's a new one, "it's not Nige's fault, it's the leagues fault"

Bloody league!

[Caversham Royal]

That's a new one, "it's not Nige's fault, it's the leagues fault"

Bloody league!