If Madejski's Next Appointment Fails...

[clauski]

I'm no big fan of Rodgers but I wholeheartedly agree the timing was strange. We had started to settle and pick up performances a little, certainly compared to QPR time. I can't really see what putting McDermott in charge is going to add - if he is that good why wasn't he appointed in the Summer? A temporary manager can only hold things together and it seems strange to have got rid of BR before a replacement was lined up - unless of course (and judging by Madejski's interview on the OS) McDermott is that replacement. A tough baptism of fire with the games we haev coming up - let's see what he can do.

[andrew1957]

Sure - look at our form from February last season and we averaged 1.05 points per game including the playoffs, WITH Doyle, Kitson and Lita at the club in addition to the others we sold. In the November and December, we have averaged 1.3 points per game and this was during a time when we threw away points at Derby at at home to Scunthorpe, the latter being a game we should have won at ease and would have if we'd had someone even half as good as Doyle. If the club based the sacking on performances as they say, then why didn't this happen after the QPR game, as performances and results have improved considerably since then and one would have though they would continue to get better with the addition of at least one striker with the return of Church and Long (even if Long is shit)?

I find it quite baffling that the last time we asset stripped (and that's exactly what we're doing to this business, not 'cutting cloth' or 'ensuring our future' and all the other rubbish coming out of the club - to do these you still need to bring in suitable replacements on lower wages which Rodgers wasn't able to do in terms of our attacking options), when we sold Shaka, Osborn, Taylor and so forth, we stayed up by the skin of our teeth focusing on the 'short term' before sacking the new management duo, bringing in Bullivant and getting relegated. Yet in spite of this, when we have done it even more than in '95, Rodgers was expected to somehow turn water into wine with a young squad which he was trying to build and sacked after 4 months of competitive matches into his and Madejski's '3 year plan'. The fact that even this forum, which is renowned for its knee-jerk reactions during Pardew's early days and 2004/5, held a vote in which Rodgers was voted to remain by a majority (however slim it was), says it all.

If you look at the top clubs around, they all (even Man City with Mark Hughes) give their managers time to create THEIR team, and you simply cannot do that inside 6 months. Sir Alex Ferguson could easily have been sacked with a Madejski in charge at Old Trafford during his early days, but their hierarchy actually know a thing or two about football, could see what he was trying to build and reaped the benefits. Our impatient chairman has acted rashly, as if destroying most of his hard work in the last 2 years wasn't bad enough, he has now destroyed the chance of us building a sustainable successful future within his strict budgets. If you look at all of the best parts to our team, all of them were caused by Rodgers - he's brought in Sigurdsson and Church who have shone, Bertrand who has been excellent at left back, and our main goal threat in Rasiak and McAnuff. If you look at McAnuff and Rasiak's history, their performances have dropped significantly when not settled under their manager, so we can kiss bye bye to the Championship.

I've supported Reading for a fair while now and all this time while Madejski has been at the helm, we have looked to build to the future and create something positive, even in the days of Bullivant and Burns - we looked towards the long term. In the last 2 and a half years, that outlook has completely changed, we have looked to get by as cheaply as we can and done a botch job. We thought we had enough players to keep us up in the Premiership and didn't strengthen, we kept hold of Coppell as he seemed the 'safe' option when he wanted out and there was no long term plan, we brought in Rodgers to build for the future once again, but abandon the plan after 6 months, panicking. I have followed this club home and away for years and could never support any other club, but right now with the exception of our youngsters and a handful of dedicated first teamers like Tabb, McAnuff and Rasiak, I feel absolutely nothing for what we have become. We've completely abandoned what we set out to do in favour of short term 'gain', which will be shown up for what it is come May, we treat long-term employees of the club like shit, we treat our fans like idiots and everyone is laughing at us.

I know we have disagreed in the past but that is a good post. I hope that sacking BR won't turn out to be a huge error.

The more I think about it McDermott may be out best hope now. Bringing in someone from outside means starting again from scratch with a completely new regime - which is very likely to mean relegation in my opinion. McDermott has worked under both Coppell and Rodgers and may just be able to pick the best from both of them.

I have said all along that sticking with BR was our best hope - now that he has gone McDermott may well be our last hope of survival.

[brendywendy]

Sure - look at our form from February last season and we averaged 1.05 points per game including the playoffs, WITH Doyle, Kitson and Lita at the club in addition to the others we sold. In the November and December, we have averaged 1.3 points per game and this was during a time when we threw away points at Derby at at home to Scunthorpe, the latter being a game we should have won at ease and would have if we'd had someone even half as good as Doyle. If the club based the sacking on performances as they say, then why didn't this happen after the QPR game, as performances and results have improved considerably since then and one would have though they would continue to get better with the addition of at least one striker with the return of Church and Long (even if Long is shit)?

I find it quite baffling that the last time we asset stripped (and that's exactly what we're doing to this business, not 'cutting cloth' or 'ensuring our future' and all the other rubbish coming out of the club - to do these you still need to bring in suitable replacements on lower wages which Rodgers wasn't able to do in terms of our attacking options), when we sold Shaka, Osborn, Taylor and so forth, we stayed up by the skin of our teeth focusing on the 'short term' before sacking the new management duo, bringing in Bullivant and getting relegated. Yet in spite of this, when we have done it even more than in '95, Rodgers was expected to somehow turn water into wine with a young squad which he was trying to build and sacked after 4 months of competitive matches into his and Madejski's '3 year plan'. The fact that even this forum, which is renowned for its knee-jerk reactions during Pardew's early days and 2004/5, held a vote in which Rodgers was voted to remain by a majority (however slim it was), says it all.

If you look at the top clubs around, they all (even Man City with Mark Hughes) give their managers time to create THEIR team, and you simply cannot do that inside 6 months. Sir Alex Ferguson could easily have been sacked with a Madejski in charge at Old Trafford during his early days, but their hierarchy actually know a thing or two about football, could see what he was trying to build and reaped the benefits. Our impatient chairman has acted rashly, as if destroying most of his hard work in the last 2 years wasn't bad enough, he has now destroyed the chance of us building a sustainable successful future within his strict budgets. If you look at all of the best parts to our team, all of them were caused by Rodgers - he's brought in Sigurdsson and Church who have shone, Bertrand who has been excellent at left back, and our main goal threat in Rasiak and McAnuff. If you look at McAnuff and Rasiak's history, their performances have dropped significantly when not settled under their manager, so we can kiss bye bye to the Championship.

I've supported Reading for a fair while now and all this time while Madejski has been at the helm, we have looked to build to the future and create something positive, even in the days of Bullivant and Burns - we looked towards the long term. In the last 2 and a half years, that outlook has completely changed, we have looked to get by as cheaply as we can and done a botch job. We thought we had enough players to keep us up in the Premiership and didn't strengthen, we kept hold of Coppell as he seemed the 'safe' option when he wanted out and there was no long term plan, we brought in Rodgers to build for the future once again, but abandon the plan after 6 months, panicking. I have followed this club home and away for years and could never support any other club, but right now with the exception of our youngsters and a handful of dedicated first teamers like Tabb, McAnuff and Rasiak, I feel absolutely nothing for what we have become. We've completely abandoned what we set out to do in favour of short term 'gain', which will be shown up for what it is come May, we treat long-term employees of the club like shit, we treat our fans like idiots and everyone is laughing at us.

i hate you, and you usually spout alot of nonsense

but that is a good post

merry xmas

[Dirk Gently]

.... a lot that you can read above ....

i hate you, and you usually spout alot of nonsense

but that is a good post

merry xmas

You talk a lot of sense, but a couple of things should be modified /highlighted.

Yes Rodgers brought in Sigurdsson and Church, but any manager would have done so - they were here anywhere, so he just played them rather than brought them in. It could be said he placed too much faith in Church - if he could shoot straight /not get injured it's possible BR might still be in a job. It's also just as easy to turn it round and say that he didn't give Karacan enough games....

I do wonder, though, if we'll still get the same performances out of McAnuff - he seems to be very much a "Rodgers" player....

As to building/asset stripping, as I posted a few weeks ago in my "perfect storm" post, we've been really shafted by the timing. A horrible coincidence of relegation and the credit-crunch hitting at the same time, as well as a change in technology etc which means publishing companies are losing lots of money. So we have a chairman with no spare money, and have to take the financial hit of relegation, which really is horrible when you look at the figures.

In fact, it could be argued that we got promoted too quickly and too soon, because at that point the wage bills of the PL stopped us doing the "brick by brick" thing - suddenly the sums involved were 3+ times more - and now coming back from that is a very painful and very heavy fall. This means we've not had the chance to get got back onto "brick by brick"

[Dirk Gently]

Yes lets all spout a lot of guff about something we have no control over and try to get rid of people who are doing their best to prevent us going the way of Watford and Cardiff (Southampton, Leeds, Portsmouth.....).

I'm sure there are many people who would be willing to buy the club and support it's losses, fund multi-million pound player purchases and increase player wages.

Now what's the number of that Arab 'Billionaire' who bought Portsmouth, not the one with no money, the other one.....oh.

There's always the guys who bought Notts County......

[Platypuss]

Perhaps 'everyone' is wrong, but if you look at what Gary Johnson has said, along with everyone else in football, they all feel that it's a very rash decision. Most fans probably don't give a toss, but the more knowledgeable ones (and more importantly the likes of Darren Ferguson, who has just seen us act exactly the same way as his short-sighted former employers, and any potential candidates who might be positive for us) will see us for what we are.

Football manager in wanting clubs to stay patient with managers shocker.

[Hoop Blah]

If it was a poisoned chalice, why did he take it?

He took it because it was the club he'd wanted to manage for years.

He is basically a Reading fan who'd grown up being involved in the club and wanted to be the man to rebuild it after all the changes post relegation and the failed attempt to go back up.

He knew the job on hand and was willing to take the risk and back himself to be able to complete it. I think even he admitted it probably came about a bit too early for him but he couldn't resist coming 'home' to take on the challenge as he might never have got the chance again.

[Dirk Gently]

If it was a poisoned chalice, why did he take it?

He took it because it was the club he'd wanted to manage for years.

He is basically a Reading fan who'd grown up being involved in the club and wanted to be the man to rebuild it after all the changes post relegation and the failed attempt to go back up.

He knew the job on hand and was willing to take the risk and back himself to be able to complete it. I think even he admitted it probably came about a bit too early for him but he couldn't resist coming 'home' to take on the challenge as he might never have got the chance again.

Correct, and although he realised that the job had come up a year or so quicker than was ideal for him, not only did he feel he was able to make a success of it, he also didn't want to see someone else get it, make a success of it and stay in the job for 5 years.

It was always his next job in his mind.

[readingbedding]

If it was a poisoned chalice, why did he take it?

He took it because it was the club he'd wanted to manage for years.

He is basically a Reading fan who'd grown up being involved in the club and wanted to be the man to rebuild it after all the changes post relegation and the failed attempt to go back up.

He knew the job on hand and was willing to take the risk and back himself to be able to complete it. I think even he admitted it probably came about a bit too early for him but he couldn't resist coming 'home' to take on the challenge as he might never have got the chance again.

Of course it came way too early for him, look at what happened...more or less a complete shambles, and the way some people are painting it is that no-one could have done a decent job with the squad we had available.
I don't think it was a poisoned chalice, Rodgers made lots of mistakes, too many for the people who count.

[Woodcote Royal]

Only those with inside knowledge are in any position to comment with authority on the timing of Rodger's dismissal.

If, as some have suggested, he told the board he couldn't keep us up without significant further investment in the upcoming window, frankly, I think SJM was probably fully justified in agreeing to part company.

Management is all about using the resources at your disposal to best possible effect and I don't think Brendan was doing that. This is partly because I disagree with those who say this is a poor squad for this division.........................BR just makes it look that way and most of the genuine weaknesses were within his power to solve.

Money is clearly tight and I'm guessing this boiled down to whether the board wanted to risk giving more money to a manager who no longer sees his star 2 million signing of just a few months ago as being worth a place in the match day squad.

Following more than 2 seasons of dire football, including a calender year that still awaits its 3rd home victory in the league, my hunch is that this was a good a decision.

And, having missed much of 2009 myself, perhaps our Chairman realised also that the regular supporters couldn't take much more.

[Hoop Blah]

Rodgers made some mistakes, but I think they were necessarily down to a lack of experience, more just willingness to open his mouth...the product of spending too much time with Jose if you ask me.

As for his mistakes in the transfer market, same goes for the most experienced of managers.

As for the squad being good enough to do a lot better, well I think it's getting there now thanks to the learning curve of the last 4 months, but picking up the squad as it was in July was a massive massive job.

[readingbedding]

I wanted him to be successful, but I just had a massive. massive nagging doubt he wouldn't be.
In a way, I would have liked him to come in right now as the replacement. (Maybe).
His first ever pre-season was with us, and from what I saw we were so under-cooked and ill-prepared for the first match onwards, I just wish he did that at Watford than us.

[Only one Trevor Morley]

Rodgers made some mistakes, but I think they were necessarily down to a lack of experience, more just willingness to open his mouth...the product of spending too much time with Jose if you ask me.

As for his mistakes in the transfer market, same goes for the most experienced of managers.

As for the squad being good enough to do a lot better, well I think it's getting there now thanks to the learning curve of the last 4 months, but picking up the squad as it was in July was a massive massive job.

Thats not a bad post from soome one whose views I dotn always agree with. Rodgers was both inexperienced and out of his depth. But ultimately I dont think the board ever really forgave him for how he handled the Tommy Smith saga. it was so opposite to how we normal handle these things quietly and effectively. Reading love doing things quietly and under Coppell that approach had served us well. Rodgers was too much of a shock in that respect.

As an asideThere seems to be a lot of criticism about the squad but other than the top 4 or 5 I beleive we've got one of the better sqauds in the league. We're just not getting the most from it. We need a new captain and Tabbv wpuld be perfact for that role. Hopefully McDemott will make some changes accordingly.

[Dirk Gently]

Rodgers made some mistakes, but I think they were necessarily down to a lack of experience, more just willingness to open his mouth...the product of spending too much time with Jose if you ask me.

As for his mistakes in the transfer market, same goes for the most experienced of managers.

As for the squad being good enough to do a lot better, well I think it's getting there now thanks to the learning curve of the last 4 months, but picking up the squad as it was in July was a massive massive job.

Thats not a bad post from soome one whose views I dotn always agree with. Rodgers was both inexperienced and out of his depth. But ultimately I dont think the board ever really forgave him for how he handled the Tommy Smith saga. it was so opposite to how we normal handle these things quietly and effectively. Reading love doing things quietly and under Coppell that approach had served us well. Rodgers was too much of a shock in that respect.

As an asideThere seems to be a lot of criticism about the squad but other than the top 4 or 5 I beleive we've got one of the better sqauds in the league. We're just not getting the most from it. We need a new captain and Tabbv wpuld be perfact for that role. Hopefully McDemott will make some changes accordingly.

There's a lot of sense in all of that - except that Tabby's not enough of a regular starter to be captain. I love him as a player but sadly he's not really assured of a starting place.

I expect Brian Mc to play a much simpler game, much more appropriate to Tier 2, almost certainly a pretty orthodox 4-4-2, changing it slightly to match the specific opposition. (That assumes, of course, that we can find two strikers.... )

[Only one Trevor Morley]

Rodgers made some mistakes, but I think they were necessarily down to a lack of experience, more just willingness to open his mouth...the product of spending too much time with Jose if you ask me.

As for his mistakes in the transfer market, same goes for the most experienced of managers.

As for the squad being good enough to do a lot better, well I think it's getting there now thanks to the learning curve of the last 4 months, but picking up the squad as it was in July was a massive massive job.

Thats not a bad post from soome one whose views I dotn always agree with. Rodgers was both inexperienced and out of his depth. But ultimately I dont think the board ever really forgave him for how he handled the Tommy Smith saga. it was so opposite to how we normal handle these things quietly and effectively. Reading love doing things quietly and under Coppell that approach had served us well. Rodgers was too much of a shock in that respect.

As an asideThere seems to be a lot of criticism about the squad but other than the top 4 or 5 I beleive we've got one of the better sqauds in the league. We're just not getting the most from it. We need a new captain and Tabbv wpuld be perfact for that role. Hopefully McDemott will make some changes accordingly.

There's a lot of sense in all of that - except that Tabby's not enough of a regular starter to be captain. I love him as a player but sadly he's not really assured of a starting place.

I expect Brian Mc to play a much simpler game, much more appropriate to Tier 2, almost certainly a pretty orthodox 4-4-2, changing it slightly to match the specific opposition. (That assumes, of course, that we can find two strikers.... )

As someone more closely connected to the club would you agree that Brendan Rodgers handling of the Smith saga was something that the board and Hammond were never quite able to get over. I cant help feeling that if he hadn't been quite so public in his dealings they might have given hima bit longer. I'm one of those who feel he wasnt the right fit for Reading but interested in other views.

[Woodcote Royal]

As for the squad being good enough to do a lot better, well I think it's getting there now thanks to the learning curve of the last 4 months, but picking up the squad as it was in July was a massive massive job.

Promotion would have been a massive, massive job but few were expecting that.

Most would have settled for a talented bunch of youngsters being established in the team whilst avoiding relegation and I think that was a more than realistic target for a man who had spent time with many of these players.

Sadly, that plan went out of the window very early with the likes of cock up Marek getting the nod far too often.

I do agree that his time at Chelsea may have affected his judgement.......................playing one upfront with Drogba at the sharp end and Lampard chipping in with 25 goals from midfield is totally different to using Championship players in the same formation.

[Arnie_Pie]

Worst_thread_ever.

[Hoop Blah]

That talented bunch of of youngsters just aren't good enough to carry a team in this league though.

Throw a few in here and there by all means, but you have to put them into a more established team with more quality around them to help them adjust and step up to the plate. As individuals the likes of Karacan, Sigurdsson, Pearce and to a lesser extent Church, Robson-Kanu, Henry and Davies may well cut it at this level, but a midfield pairing of, for eaxmple Davies and Karacan would just get walked over week-in week-out in the Championship.

We have a keeper who isn't good enough, a total lack of a cutting edge upfront and a back four that lacks pace through the middle. I agree the squad could get better results, and I think the performances were moving that way, but to think that this squad should be performing much better is a bit wide of the mark in my book.

Trevor Morley....glad you're finally seeing some sense then!

[DOYLERSAROYALER]

I think the Mills situation has a lot more to do with it than is being publicised ....a £2m signing which is up there with the club record, yet the guy doesnt play...instead we go with 2 pedestrian type centre backs who were woeful in Saturdays game...the sword that Rodgers fell on had Mills written on it !

[Only one Trevor Morley]

That talented bunch of of youngsters just aren't good enough to carry a team in this league though.

Throw a few in here and there by all means, but you have to put them into a more established team with more quality around them to help them adjust and step up to the plate. As individuals the likes of Karacan, Sigurdsson, Pearce and to a lesser extent Church, Robson-Kanu, Henry and Davies may well cut it at this level, but a midfield pairing of, for eaxmple Davies and Karacan would just get walked over week-in week-out in the Championship.

We have a keeper who isn't good enough, a total lack of a cutting edge upfront and a back four that lacks pace through the middle. I agree the squad could get better results, and I think the performances were moving that way, but to think that this squad should be performing much better is a bit wide of the mark in my book.

Trevor Morley....glad you're finally seeing some sense then!

Now you've gone to far and I'm disagreeing again. other than right back (Tabb should be in central midfield in my opinion) I think that when everyone is fit we have a good (but not great) squad. Rasiak is averaging about 1 in 2 which is a decent cutting edge - but we do need someone else to bang them in. May be the new icelander will be the missing link - clearly BM rates him. the example of Davies and Karacan is irrelevant when we have so many other midfielders.