No appeal for Bikey

[West Stand Man]

Surely if the video doesn't show him punching Chopra that's evidence enough?!

Unfortunately it is "guilty until proven innocent" and not the other way round.

Sadly, having defended 2 of my players in separate appeals in different leagues I concur. The line that appeals panels take is that "the referee is right - now prove he was wrong (oh, and by the way we don't care if the evidence looks good to you because we are not going to undermine our referees)". In both my appeals it was patently clear that the referee had been over-zealous and in both cases the appeal failed.

Unless you have evidence suchthat the hearing cannot possibly find in the referee's favour, you are doomed.

[Kitson12]

At least he'll be back in time for the B'ham game, although he could do with a bit more playing time between now and then to put the Southampton nightmare behind him.

He'll have the Norwich game before the Brum game to do this...

And hopefully he won't get booked in that game...as he's still on 4 yellows.

[Forbury Lion]

If Chopra was to testify that he wasn't punched in the fact that would be evidence enough.

I presume he does not wish to do this, perhaps on account of the fact he felt he was punched.

Is that what he said?

Evening Post today reports that they understand Chopra told Reading staff privately that he was not punched.

Perhaps Steve Coppell should wear a video camera like the ones they've introduced for police officers on patrol, that way he will have evidence of what he saw.

[Stranded]

The thing is the ref gets one look at it from one specific angle, he believes he saw Bikey throw a punch and took the only correct action open to him in that situation, a red card.

Now the Cardiff game was not live on TV so it is more than likely that the only camera angle available is the one seen on SSN and the highlights. This doesn’t clarify much of anything as any contact made is not visible due to bodies being in the way.

None of this proves that Bikey did or didn’t punch Chopra but the decision the ref gave was correct as far as what he saw (or believed he saw) – we have to respect this, that is the nature of the respect campaign after all. There is no evidence to contradict his decision so no point in appealing – Chopra could agree to say he hasn’t been punched if he believes that to be the case, but we can’t force him to do so, and it’s very unlikely he would anyway.

[Wycombe Royal]

The thing is the ref gets one look at it from one specific angle, he believes he saw Bikey throw a punch and took the only correct action open to him in that situation, a red card.

Now the Cardiff game was not live on TV so it is more than likely that the only camera angle available is the one seen on SSN and the highlights. This doesn’t clarify much of anything as any contact made is not visible due to bodies being in the way.

None of this proves that Bikey did or didn’t punch Chopra but the decision the ref gave was correct as far as what he saw (or believed he saw) – we have to respect this, that is the nature of the respect campaign after all. There is no evidence to contradict his decision so no point in appealing – Chopra could agree to say he hasn’t been punched if he believes that to be the case, but we can’t force him to do so, and it’s very unlikely he would anyway.

According the Chronicle, Chopra has said to RFC in private that he wasn't punched. THe referee has also viewed the video and has seen nothing to change his view of the incident.

[Alan Partridge]

The thing is the ref gets one look at it from one specific angle, he believes he saw Bikey throw a punch and took the only correct action open to him in that situation, a red card.

Now the Cardiff game was not live on TV so it is more than likely that the only camera angle available is the one seen on SSN and the highlights. This doesn’t clarify much of anything as any contact made is not visible due to bodies being in the way.

None of this proves that Bikey did or didn’t punch Chopra but the decision the ref gave was correct as far as what he saw (or believed he saw) – we have to respect this, that is the nature of the respect campaign after all. There is no evidence to contradict his decision so no point in appealing – Chopra could agree to say he hasn’t been punched if he believes that to be the case, but we can’t force him to do so, and it’s very unlikely he would anyway.

According the Chronicle, Chopra has said to RFC in private that he wasn't punched. THe referee has also viewed the video and has seen nothing to change his view of the incident.

Well he wouldn't would he, unless it is proved laughably wrong they will never change their minds. Even in some of those cases they are defended.

It is impossible to 'respect' referees when they get big decisions wrong and are too stubborn to change their views. This respect campaign is all one way at the moment, when they start getting big things right and manning up when they don't you will see coaches and players respect them, until then nothing will change and rightly so.

[Stranded]

As the angle on the TV shows the incidient on the wrong side, so he would correctly not change his mind from that. From his actual angle he could have seen say, Bikey jump, his hand come round and pass near Chopra's head (no contact made, but would appear as such from his angle), Chopra lands in a heap and it's a fair decision that a punch has been landed.

Chopra telling the club in private that happened and going to a tribunal are two very different things.

[Royal With Cheese]

It is impossible to 'respect' referees when they get big decisions wrong and are too stubborn to change their views. This respect campaign is all one way at the moment, when they start getting big things right and manning up when they don't you will see coaches and players respect them, until then nothing will change and rightly so.

I don't understand - the respect campaign was only evey going to be one way - that was the whole point.

BTW - that doesn't mean I'm happy with that just amazed that anyone could come to any other conclusion.

[Alan Partridge]

It is impossible to 'respect' referees when they get big decisions wrong and are too stubborn to change their views. This respect campaign is all one way at the moment, when they start getting big things right and manning up when they don't you will see coaches and players respect them, until then nothing will change and rightly so.

I don't understand - the respect campaign was only evey going to be one way - that was the whole point.

BTW - that doesn't mean I'm happy with that just amazed that anyone could come to any other conclusion.

Of course it has to be two ways, players respecting referees and referees respecting players. The fact is they are still getting the big decisions wrong, the odd offside or the odd foul missed you accept as part of the game, when there are goals given/not given, penalties and sendings off, these need to be right pretty much everytime or as close as possible to. They aren't getting anywhere near an acceptable rate. If that happens then it's impossible to respect officials. The players without doubt are trying to be more leniant with officials, haven't seen any Ashley Cole style dissent yet this season, bookings for dissent are down and there has been little 'surrounding the ref'. When the refs are getting these things so badly wrong it's easy to see why players would lose their rag.

[Stranded]

Referees are always going to get big decisions wrong, it's nigh on impossible for them to get them right all the time but I would wager they get the vast majority right.

Problem is, the ones they get right are forgotten almost instantly whilst the ones they get wrong are discussed ad infinitum and used as a stick to beat them.

[facaldaqui]

Watching the incident on video, it's unclear; but I know one thing: I've never seen a defender go to hit or elbow a player from that angle (from behind).

I also watched the penalty incident several times, and it looks to me that Chopra fouls Marcus by backing into him, which stopped Marcus catching the ball. Chopra was very clever there and in his obstruction during the ensuing melée.

[John 3:16]

The respect campaign is a failure. The standard of refereeing this season is by far the worst I can remember it. It's not just about getting decisions wrong, that's always going to happen. It's about how they hold their hands up when they HAVE got them wrong and come out and say so. If they did that then people would start to show them the respect they deserve. Me? Not going to happen this season, until they change their attitude I'm afraid.

[Sun Tzu]

The Respect campiagn has nothing to do with whether referee's get decisions right or wrong. That is utterly irrelevant.

Sadly the attitude of AP is too common in the game and while it exists the game will remain in big trouble.

Referees do not have to 'earn' respect. They do not lose respect by making incorrect decisions per se.

But whilst Respect is a word so sorely misunderstood by fans, players and managers we'll never solve the problems of ill discipline and bad behaviour at all levels of the game.

[Thaumagurist*]

Yes, they should "earn" the respect. They can, equally, lose the respect. Before the Cardiff game, I wasn't overly bothered by Walton. But now he's lost my respect and his name will be uttered with disdain as such I reserve for the likes of Poll, Bennett and Knight.

[Stranded]

He is the referee therefore he should have the respect of those attached to a game for the period of time regardless of whether his decisions go for or against you. It happens readily in pretty much all other sports so why football is different I've never understood.

You can dislike a person but should be able to put that to one side and respect his position.

[RoyalBlue]

As the angle on the TV shows the incidient on the wrong side, so he would correctly not change his mind from that. From his actual angle he could have seen say, Bikey jump, his hand come round and pass near Chopra's head (no contact made, but would appear as such from his angle), Chopra lands in a heap and it's a fair decision that a punch has been landed.

Chopra telling the club in private that happened and going to a tribunal are two very different things.

Shame Chopra wasn't big enough to tell Walton that after the game. Walton might then have viewed the video in a different light.

I reckon that Walton came into the game with an opinion on Bikey and, after Chopra fouled Bikey, formed the view that Bikey would exact retribution at some later stage in the game. He then saw the challenge how he wanted to see it, in order to support the conclusion he had already drawn - hence the ultra quick red card.

Maybe Walton should try viewing such incidents with a more open mind.

He is the referee therefore he should have the respect of those attached to a game for the period of time regardless of whether his decisions go for or against you. It happens readily in pretty much all other sports so why football is different I've never understood.

You can dislike a person but should be able to put that to one side and respect his position.

Respectr has to be earned. Even the almight FA can't just bestow it on someone.

[Sun Tzu]

Respect is NOT earned.

Bear in mind it is the role you are respecting, not the individual.

Under your assumption the game starts with zero respect for the person with the whistle and until he has done some unspecified things to 'earn' that respect he has no standing.

You HAVE to start from the assumption that the referee is respected, his decisions are accepted and the game is also res[ected by being played in the right way.

If the referee is biased or behaves in a bad way he loses respect but the only POSSIBLE stance is to start from the presumption of respect to the officials.

By the way, if fans or players had to 'earn' respect I suspect they would be forever in debit....

[Bubbly4Me]

If BK didn't throw the punch then Chopra should come forward. The result's not going to change anything now other than his availability to play the next few games. If that means so much to Cardiff then they're pretty sad if you ask me; they've had their advantage already. No more is needed.

That said, however, if we took the same moral approach, we'd put the ball in the back of our own net on Jan 9th from the kick off. Can't see that happening though.

Sadly, there's no profit in sportsmanship.

[rabidbee]

To be fair, Chopra had his back to Bikey and ended up eating the turf pretty quickly, he's probably not in the best position to tell what Bikey did or didn't do, beyond clatter him.

[Bubbly4Me]

To be fair, Chopra had his back to Bikey and ended up eating the turf pretty quickly, he's probably not in the best position to tell what Bikey did or didn't do, beyond clatter him.

Quite possibly. I'm passing no judgement on Chopra; I wasn't there.

It's funny though, at some point at every home game, when BK has played, I've thought "Ooooooooh! he got away with that one!". He's a big lad with lots of power and I've often felt it's only down to the reasoning of the ref that he hasn't picked up a string of yellows. He worries me at times with his nonchalant attitude but there's also nobody on the pitch that can provide entertainment of the level he does. I both cringe and laugh pretty much everytime he clears the ball. Great value for entertainment and overall a great asset to the club.

Personally I can't see any reason WHY he would have decked Chopra; he simply doesn't need to.