The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 27/8

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Snowball
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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Snowball » 06 Jun 2011 08:32

weybridgewanderer
Passes completed
Tackles made
Passes intercepted
Fouls commited

are these not also part of what makes a good performance?


Agreed, these after shots, goals, assists. Mac has worked harder this season, covering more in defence for Harte
(than for Bertie) so it's not unreasonable to presume he's made MORE tackles and intercepted more passes.

Already mentioned passes. There has been no obvious increase or decrease in his pass rate, completions,
assists, so we presume "about the same".

Fouls very similar

41 Games 29 Fouls 3 Yellows 2009-10
44 Games 32 Fouls 5 Yellows 2010-11 (3 extra fouls in 3 extra games, no significance. Extra 2 yellows)


As I've said, nothing anywhere to show he played better last season.

His Actim position was 3 places higher this season too.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by No Hoops » 06 Jun 2011 09:07

And I said no stats and no arguing now stop it please.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Hoop Blah » 06 Jun 2011 09:15

Sometimes Snowball there isn't a tangible stat for what defines a good performance. Furthermore there is more than one right answer as to what a good performance is so you can't measure it in the same way as you can a good scoring rate etc etc.

Personally, a lot of the things I consciously take into account when watching and assessing how well a player plays are mental and totally subjective and can only be considered on an individual basis. Things like, but not limited to,

Work rate
Taking responsibility and not taking the easy way out
Making the right decisions
Taking up the good positions
Making good runs
Willingness to take a man on
How often they make the best of a situation and create something
How much of a threat they seem to be posing the opposition

The list is almost endless.

How you want to factor those kind of things into a statistical model is up to you, but considering it would need to be different for each player and each fan I think you'll struggle to get one that works!

On the topic of McAnuff I think he showed a lot more attacking intent last season and caused opposition defences more of a problem. This season I think he's been hampered by more defensive responsibilities but he's not shirked that all which is probably why he's possibly my favourite current player.

I think he had a better season last year though because he was a bit more consistent and was more of an attacking threat which is after all what I prefer to see from our wingers. This year I think he had a long spell of not taking his man on enough and taking the easy way out far too often. Funnily enough, over the last few games he seemed to be more willing to try and dominate the opposition and looked much better for it. My assumption is that it was because Kebe was out of the team and so more came to McAnuff and he felt more responsibility to produce for the team.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by PistolPete » 06 Jun 2011 09:52

:evil: BACK ON TOPIC :evil:

In addition to the players released I would imagine Kebe and Long will be sold. Mills and Federici might be sold too.

Therefore I would like to see the following 22 to line up for the 2011/12 season:

GK - McCarthy (Andersen)
DR - Cummings (Griffin)
DL - Harte (Williams)
DC - Mills (Pearce)
DC - Jordan Spence (Morrison)
MR - McAnuff (Obita)
ML - Dale Jennings (Robson-Kanu)
MC - Leigertwood (Tabb)
MC - Karacan (Taylor)
ST - Williams (Manset)
ST - Hunt (Church)

What! No Gunnarsson?!
I've been Gunnarson's biggest fan, a big match player who gives 100%, but his position in the squad prevents players like Morrison, Cummings, Taylor and even Obita from getting game time due to another of his assets, his versatility. I know it's sad, but on this basis I'd let him go (or try to keep him as a coach only).

Loan out the periphery youth
Lawson D'Ath, Ethan Gage, Nicholas Bignall, Michael Antonio and probably Ben Hamer should go out on loan (again).

Surely we need a new Striker if/when Long goes?!
If come the end of August our strikers are not cutting it, we should look to bring in a striker on loan similar to the way Swansea brought in Borini. At this stage with the the Premier league yet to begin it's player merry-go-round it is too early to predict who we might be in a position to take. However, it is too early to be making decisions on buying a new striker when 1,2 or more of what we have could make the grade. In fact, we may even be able to play a five man midfield with the squad we have which would make buying a 5th striker excessive. Long will be tough to replace whatever happens.

How to replace Kebe if we have to
Dale Jennings from Tranmere would cost £1.5m and is a big prospect; buying him would allow McAnuff to move to the right and would not be the kind of player that would force Robson-Kanu to consider his future. Players like Danny Green would be in our price range and could be a good back up, but for a team that has so impressive with it's wide play since players like Convey, Little and Hunt, it seems right that we should be aiming high. Michael Kightly and Chris Burke are available on bosmans, but I feel both players do not fit the so called 'Reading DNA', in other words, they are not 'hungry' enough.

Pace needed at the back
Morrison, Pearce and (if he stays) Mills are all dominant centre halves, however occasionally this season they've been caught out as to being too slow; Taraabt, Sinclair and Darren Ambrose spring to mind. For this reason I'd try to bring in a centre back with pace. Jordan Spence is being linked with Bristol City after a good loan spell but West Ham may want to keep him and instead sell players on higher wages, they may not even make a decision without the squad being assessed by Allerdyce. However, Spence has pace and is the right age to become a first team player at this level with the experience of having captained England youth sides so if we can do it, I'd love to see him fulfil his potential at the Madejski.

Midfield and Howard
Tabb, Leigertwood, Karacan and Taylor look to be enough to be able to do without Howard, sometimes it's better to just say goodbye to a player and 'good luck'.

The left back debate
I'd love to bring back Bertrand, it's just that I think Harte has one more season in him at this level, especially due to his set pieces. If Mcdermott can work his magic on Williams- and he must have seen something he liked at one stage- it seems pointless to spend quite a lot of money on a position that is not really a big problem. If Bertrand is still available when we go up next season then yes please!

3 good goalkeepers too many
Federici splits opinion and I have to say I like him, however, he is on the face of it, at age 26, a very saleable asset and seems to be very ambitious, perhaps due to getting close to the Australian number 1 spot. On the other hand, finding a buyer might be harder than we imagine. Most championship teams seem to rate their keepers - Westwood, Camp, Speroni, Loach, Guzan, Heaton and Schmeichael have all got rave reviews this season and it would take a great salesman to get more than £1m for Federici in a buyers market. However, it is essential that McCarthy, Anderson and Hamer are getting first team action ideally at championship level. Could it be that, as a young Englishman with FA cup exposure, McCarthy is the player more likely to leave? This would be tragic but necessary if funds need to be raised for other areas of the team. One of Hamer and Anderson would need to play Carling Cup games and the other would need to be loaned out. Perhaps Hamer could go to Germany as a fluent German speaker?!

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by loyalroyal4life » 06 Jun 2011 09:54

Nyron Nosworthy??? :shock:


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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Mr Angry » 06 Jun 2011 10:37

PistolPete :evil: BACK ON TOPIC :evil:

In addition to the players released I would imagine Kebe and Long will be sold. Mills and Federici might be sold too.

Therefore I would like to see the following 22 to line up for the 2011/12 season:

GK - McCarthy (Andersen)
DR - Cummings (Griffin)
DL - Harte (Williams)
DC - Mills (Pearce)
DC - Jordan Spence (Morrison)
MR - McAnuff (Obita)
ML - Dale Jennings (Robson-Kanu)
MC - Leigertwood (Tabb)
MC - Karacan (Taylor)
ST - Williams (Manset)
ST - Hunt (Church)

What! No Gunnarsson?!
I've been Gunnarson's biggest fan, a big match player who gives 100%, but his position in the squad prevents players like Morrison, Cummings, Taylor and even Obita from getting game time due to another of his assets, his versatility. I know it's sad, but on this basis I'd let him go (or try to keep him as a coach only).

Loan out the periphery youth
Lawson D'Ath, Ethan Gage, Nicholas Bignall, Michael Antonio and probably Ben Hamer should go out on loan (again).

Surely we need a new Striker if/when Long goes?!
If come the end of August our strikers are not cutting it, we should look to bring in a striker on loan similar to the way Swansea brought in Borini. At this stage with the the Premier league yet to begin it's player merry-go-round it is too early to predict who we might be in a position to take. However, it is too early to be making decisions on buying a new striker when 1,2 or more of what we have could make the grade. In fact, we may even be able to play a five man midfield with the squad we have which would make buying a 5th striker excessive. Long will be tough to replace whatever happens.

How to replace Kebe if we have to
Dale Jennings from Tranmere would cost £1.5m and is a big prospect; buying him would allow McAnuff to move to the right and would not be the kind of player that would force Robson-Kanu to consider his future. Players like Danny Green would be in our price range and could be a good back up, but for a team that has so impressive with it's wide play since players like Convey, Little and Hunt, it seems right that we should be aiming high. Michael Kightly and Chris Burke are available on bosmans, but I feel both players do not fit the so called 'Reading DNA', in other words, they are not 'hungry' enough.

Pace needed at the back
Morrison, Pearce and (if he stays) Mills are all dominant centre halves, however occasionally this season they've been caught out as to being too slow; Taraabt, Sinclair and Darren Ambrose spring to mind. For this reason I'd try to bring in a centre back with pace. Jordan Spence is being linked with Bristol City after a good loan spell but West Ham may want to keep him and instead sell players on higher wages, they may not even make a decision without the squad being assessed by Allerdyce. However, Spence has pace and is the right age to become a first team player at this level with the experience of having captained England youth sides so if we can do it, I'd love to see him fulfil his potential at the Madejski.

Midfield and Howard
Tabb, Leigertwood, Karacan and Taylor look to be enough to be able to do without Howard, sometimes it's better to just say goodbye to a player and 'good luck'.

The left back debate
I'd love to bring back Bertrand, it's just that I think Harte has one more season in him at this level, especially due to his set pieces. If Mcdermott can work his magic on Williams- and he must have seen something he liked at one stage- it seems pointless to spend quite a lot of money on a position that is not really a big problem. If Bertrand is still available when we go up next season then yes please!

3 good goalkeepers too many
Federici splits opinion and I have to say I like him, however, he is on the face of it, at age 26, a very saleable asset and seems to be very ambitious, perhaps due to getting close to the Australian number 1 spot. On the other hand, finding a buyer might be harder than we imagine. Most championship teams seem to rate their keepers - Westwood, Camp, Speroni, Loach, Guzan, Heaton and Schmeichael have all got rave reviews this season and it would take a great salesman to get more than £1m for Federici in a buyers market. However, it is essential that McCarthy, Anderson and Hamer are getting first team action ideally at championship level. Could it be that, as a young Englishman with FA cup exposure, McCarthy is the player more likely to leave? This would be tragic but necessary if funds need to be raised for other areas of the team. One of Hamer and Anderson would need to play Carling Cup games and the other would need to be loaned out. Perhaps Hamer could go to Germany as a fluent German speaker?!



Well thought out post Pistol Pete; I would agree with a lot of this, and I appreciate that its all down to personal points of view.

Bryn - I think his vesatility is what will keep him in the squad rather than the other way round;.

Feds - I'm a firm believer in the principle that, if a player wants to go, let him go as otherwise the Shorey Effect will kick in.... McCarthy would be our #1 and would get pitch time rather than be - at best - a benchwarmer at a bottom quarter Prem side.

Bertrand - my view is made clear on the previous page; Betrand has to be playing Premiership football at this stage of his career development, and anyway, Chelsea rate him.

The left back debate centres on Williams; if he isn't going to make it, we have to buy a new left back.

New striker - I'm inclined to look at someone like Ebanks-Blake on a season long loan; we seem to have a good relationship with Wolves and it would be mutually beneficial for all parties concerned; I can't see Brian doing anything other than 442; apart from anything else, there isn't anyone who can adequately fill in the Siggi role behind the striker in a 451.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by brendywendy » 06 Jun 2011 10:39

isnt that taylors prefferred role?


i reckon hell play a bit next season

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by No Hoops » 06 Jun 2011 10:44

Back on track PP.

Nice post

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Mr Angry » 06 Jun 2011 10:52

brendywendy isnt that taylors prefferred role?


i reckon hell play a bit next season


Behind the striker in a 451?

I haven't seen the lad play so couldn't give any sort of opinion on his capabilities.


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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by JimmytheJim » 06 Jun 2011 11:13

Snowball
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Goal-scoring was IMPROVED. One third more goals.

He plays with Bertie and scores 3. Bertie gets 1. Total 4
He plays with Harte and scores 4. Harte gets 11. Total 15.

Agreed, so goal-scoring is not the factor. How about assists?

9 versus 8... so not assists, either.


So not goals and not assists. What then?




PLEASE explain where "it's obvious" McAnuff played better with Bertie.


from watching the games not staring at the stats.

oxf*rd me you are tedious.


BUT YOU FAIL TO EXPLAIN, REASON? YOU ARE WRONG AND CAN''T EXPLAIN.


you sound like a nutter.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Hoop Blah » 06 Jun 2011 11:24

I really don't expect to see any decent bids coming in for Mills. I think he's been too inconsistent this season for anyone to think he's worth enough for us to let him go.

However, he has looked excellent at times (poor at others) and especially in the big games so I suppose you never know. If he can get himself right for more games this season and reproduce his good games more often then his value will certainly rise though.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by weybridgewanderer » 06 Jun 2011 11:26

Is there a prem league team that is seriously interested in Feds?

While Feds may want to go, will anyone make an offer? Will that offer be to play or to fill a spce on a bench?

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Hoop Blah » 06 Jun 2011 11:43

I can certainly see someone like Fulham coming in for him if they lose Schwarzer (which was the rumour back in January) or Villa taking a gamble on him replacing Friedel as their backups aren't that great.

I can see a few sniffing around, maybe as a second choice mind, but I'm sure Federici won't be too fussed about that once he can call himself a Premier League keeper again.


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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by PistolPete » 06 Jun 2011 11:51

It's for this reason that I thought McCarthy might be the one to go as, being young and English with a bit of experience, he is the kind of back up that premier league teams will want. Federici won't make it at many teams as first choice so could be the one that starts as Reading keeper next season.

Mills could be the direct replacement for teams like Birmingham or Bolton if they lose their star defenders. Swansea have also been linked but is he really the player that Rodgers liked while he was here?

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Forbury Lion » 06 Jun 2011 11:58

weybridgewanderer
Passes completed
Tackles made
Passes intercepted
Fouls commited

are these not also part of what makes a good performance?
Statistics can be misleading - A great passer is wasted if they are playing with poor receivers. Also, a team that doesn't lose the ball makes far less tackles and commits less fouls & intercepts less passes.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Svlad Cjelli » 06 Jun 2011 14:10

PistolPete Mills could be the direct replacement for teams like Birmingham or Bolton if they lose their star defenders. Swansea have also been linked but is he really the player that Rodgers liked while he was here?


I wondered how long it would be before Mills was linked to BR.

But don't forget that this is the player who stood up to BR in the dressing room and told him that the players couldn't understand what he wanted them to do. He was then promptly dropped and would almost certainly have been sold the following January.

So I can't see that one happening, somehow ........

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Royalwaster » 06 Jun 2011 14:26

Does anyone think D'Ath might play a role next season - wasn't he scoring goals for fun in the reserves or was it at the youth team level?

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by Royal Rother » 06 Jun 2011 16:14

Bel Baggie was doing that a couple of years ago...

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by DOYLERSAROYALER » 06 Jun 2011 16:23

Hoop Blah I really don't expect to see any decent bids coming in for Mills. I think he's been too inconsistent this season for anyone to think he's worth enough for us to let him go.

However, he has looked excellent at times (poor at others) and especially in the big games so I suppose you never know. If he can get himself right for more games this season and reproduce his good games more often then his value will certainly rise though.



...a bit like Rio Ferdinand, John Terry and the pair of Arsenal centre backs then?? :wink:

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 2/6

by DOYLERSAROYALER » 06 Jun 2011 16:25

Royal Rother Bel Baggie was doing that a couple of years ago...



...worried it was a couple of years ago...whats he done since? ...thought academy was meant to be improving these players :D

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