Colours to the mast, pick your relegation candidates

[Snowball]

still cant undrstasnd your thinking in marking Gorkks behind Pearce
The Latvian is premier class all day long for me.

Fair point. I was going to put the both together in low-Prem. Think Gorkss is great and today edging Pearce
but Pearce still has improvement in him, Gorkss is aging. That was all.

[Snowball]

still cant undrstasnd your thinking in marking Gorkks behind Pearce
The Latvian is premier class all day long for me.

I can see his logic

Gorkks got promoted with Blackpool to the Prem....then got offloaded to Championship QPR.......QPR got promoted to the Prem....then Kasper got offloaded to Championship Reading....and maybe so on


Gorkks is great but has he plateau'd?

Pearce is still very much up and coming

Hah-Hah, I should have read all the thread before answering. Yes, that.

I REALLY rate Gorkss as an outstanding Championship CB and a fabulous squad player in the Prem,
but whether or not he can be a long-term, safe CB in the Prem is another thing.

It's quite an interesting problem, Elwood too, my hero, but... Why do good managers let these guys go?

[Snowball]

It's the team that matters, not individual players. We didn't have the best players in the Championship last season, but we had the best team and in spite of many people predicting all sorts of doom and gloom, we ended the season as the best team in the Championship.

I know it's very easy to shoot me down by quoting the final table, but IMO we had the third-best team.

I think West Ham were better than us, look at their away record, but their crowd
was on their back at home and they dropped silly points. They SLAUGHTERED us
at their place, and IMO had they got a second goal in the middle of that first half
we would have lost at least 4-0.

Of course I'm aware of how the game FINISHED but IMO we were outclassed for 40 minutes by a far better side
who just (as it happens) didn't get the vital second goal. HAD we lost that, and anyone honest knows we easily could have,
we would probably have been hanging on for third.

IMO we were outplayed for long periods at Saints, outplayed at Brighton

We STOLE those games, and GREAT credit to the manager and team, but the point is we were never comfortable and really, easily, could have lost.

Team-work, team-ethic, yes, plus luck, but now we are up against players who are a LOT better and who punish errors and given-away chances

[RoyalBlue]

Villa, Norwich, Saints, Reading ATM most likely bottom 4 with Saints surviving.

Wigan and Stoke bottom half, but it's hard to see us ever looking clear of danger.

Will come down to beating the other relegation candidates, but I don't feel optimistic.

Of course there may be some free transfers and/or a few big signings in January
but looking at squads and results will be mightily surprised if we aren't in bottom 3 or 4 New Years Day


I thought we were the third best team last season, despite winning the league. Pog is excellent,
McCleary very, very promising and Guthrie too, but as the season grinds on, a few injuries and
we could lose ten on the trot.

its a pity BM doesn`t see it the same way. its so blindingly obvious

West Ham were picking up injuries in yesterday's game but it made little difference as they were able to replace one real class player with another on each occasion.

We have signed a few class players (too few IMO and that of many others) and when they get injured or suspended all we can bring on is 'triers' and 'real team players'.

Lack of sufficient investment (note sufficient) at the right time could cost us dear again.

[windermere_royal]

So sad (and misguided) that BM feels that he has to stay loyal to the players that took us up, even if some of them are nowhere near PL standard.
I really fear for us this season and it could be all over before the next window opens.

[Snowball]

RB's point is fair enough. Depth is an issue.



I don't worry about Noel, for example, having 20 minutes a game, but I'd find it really hard to imagine
him as a regular starter in a Prem side that stays up.

Pog looks the business. But will Roberts be OK at 34+? Maybe Alf will be the grab to Pog's smash
but we do lack "obvious" Prem-quality depth up front.

RW (if Keb's gets over his injuries) looks solid. McAnuff the other side, but again, an injury and HRK regularly starting in the Prem?

Guthrie looks like he'll be first on the team-sheet, but if he picks up injury or suspension we are down to Elwood-Karacan
and even in the Championsip we said they had not enough creativity

[Hampshire Royal]

It's the team that matters, not individual players. We didn't have the best players in the Championship last season, but we had the best team and in spite of many people predicting all sorts of doom and gloom, we ended the season as the best team in the Championship.

I know it's very easy to shoot me down by quoting the final table, but IMO we had the third-best team.

I think West Ham were better than us, look at their away record, but their crowd
was on their back at home and they dropped silly points. They SLAUGHTERED us
at their place, and IMO had they got a second goal in the middle of that first half
we would have lost at least 4-0.

Of course I'm aware of how the game FINISHED but IMO we were outclassed for 40 minutes by a far better side
who just (as it happens) didn't get the vital second goal. HAD we lost that, and anyone honest knows we easily could have,
we would probably have been hanging on for third.

IMO we were outplayed for long periods at Saints, outplayed at Brighton

We STOLE those games, and GREAT credit to the manager and team, but the point is we were never comfortable and really, easily, could have lost.

Team-work, team-ethic, yes, plus luck, but now we are up against players who are a LOT better and who punish errors and given-away chances

It's just a matter of perception, I suppose. Yes, West Ham could have scored again in the first half, but they didn't. We defended well in this peiod, when a team was battering at the door and a very passionate crowd was on our backs. That's the whole point about McDermott's team, though. We defended the 18 yard line and West Ham couldn't find a way through. Same at Southampton and Brighton. We allowed them to fanny about in no man's land, but when it mattered we closed them down. This didn't jut happen in those games, but was the whole flavour of our success last year. The final table doesn't lie and the best team will end up top and the worst team will end up bottom. If you think anything else, then it's just your opinion.

[Victor Meldrew]

It's the team that matters, not individual players. We didn't have the best players in the Championship last season, but we had the best team and in spite of many people predicting all sorts of doom and gloom, we ended the season as the best team in the Championship.

I know it's very easy to shoot me down by quoting the final table, but IMO we had the third-best team.

I think West Ham were better than us, look at their away record, but their crowd
was on their back at home and they dropped silly points. They SLAUGHTERED us
at their place, and IMO had they got a second goal in the middle of that first half
we would have lost at least 4-0.

Of course I'm aware of how the game FINISHED but IMO we were outclassed for 40 minutes by a far better side
who just (as it happens) didn't get the vital second goal. HAD we lost that, and anyone honest knows we easily could have,
we would probably have been hanging on for third.

IMO we were outplayed for long periods at Saints, outplayed at Brighton

We STOLE those games, and GREAT credit to the manager and team, but the point is we were never comfortable and really, easily, could have lost.

Team-work, team-ethic, yes, plus luck, but now we are up against players who are a LOT better and who punish errors and given-away chances

It's just a matter of perception, I suppose. Yes, West Ham could have scored again in the first half, but they didn't. We defended well in this peiod, when a team was battering at the door and a very passionate crowd was on our backs. That's the whole point about McDermott's team, though. We defended the 18 yard line and West Ham couldn't find a way through. Same at Southampton and Brighton. We allowed them to fanny about in no man's land, but when it mattered we closed them down. This didn't jut happen in those games, but was the whole flavour of our success last year. The final table doesn't lie and the best team will end up top and the worst team will end up bottom. If you think anything else, then it's just your opinion.

HR,
In keeping with the topic which 3 do you think will get relegated?
FWIW my view is that it could well be the 3 promoted teams.

[Hampshire Royal]

I've no real opinion who will go down, it's a bit early to tell. If I was forced I'd say Villa, Saints and QPR.

[RFCUK]

Villa, Norwich, Saints

[Ian Royal]

West Ham were picking up injuries in yesterday's game but it made little difference as they were able to replace one real class player with another on each occasion.

We have signed a few class players (too few IMO and that of many others) and when they get injured or suspended all we can bring on is 'triers' and 'real team players'.

That's all we did when we got promoted last time and finished 8th. Our squad players in Hunt, Gunnarsson, Long, Seol playing upfront. Last year, Tabb, Cummings, Mills, HRK, Hunt, ALF, Church. Our squad players probably aren't good enough to be starters, but we've already seen time and again that they can step up for at least short periods without a significant dip in quality.

With the likes of Shorey, Mariappa, Taylor, McCarthy, Cummings, Karacan, Tabb, HRK, McCleary / Kebe, Roberts, Hunt & Church. I see no reason that this won't happen again. If we need to play more than a couple of them for 20+ we may well struggle, but as back up they'll do. McDermott obviously believes that and he's got a feck load more credit in the bank than you.

So until they show they aren't actually good enough, why not try something novel and committ a bit of support for a change.

[Snowball]

West Ham were picking up injuries in yesterday's game but it made little difference as they were able to replace one real class player with another on each occasion.

We have signed a few class players (too few IMO and that of many others) and when they get injured or suspended all we can bring on is 'triers' and 'real team players'.

That's all we did when we got promoted last time and finished 8th. Our squad players in Hunt, Gunnarsson, Long, Seol playing upfront. Last year, Tabb, Cummings, Mills, HRK, Hunt, ALF, Church. Our squad players probably aren't good enough to be starters, but we've already seen time and again that they can step up for at least short periods without a significant dip in quality.

With the likes of Shorey, Mariappa, Taylor, McCarthy, Cummings, Karacan, Tabb, HRK, McCleary / Kebe, Roberts, Hunt & Church. I see no reason that this won't happen again. If we need to play more than a couple of them for 20+ we may well struggle, but as back up they'll do. McDermott obviously believes that and he's got a feck load more credit in the bank than you.

So until they show they aren't actually good enough, why not try something novel and committ a bit of support for a change.

There is a complete difference between talking realistically about the quality required
and "showing support" or slagging off players.

Are you saying, in order to "show support" we should pretend we think the depth of quality is there?



I "show support" by attending all home games, 6-12 away games, (more if I had the money) and shouting my head off.

That doesn't mean I can't notice our second eleven and think they wouldn't be guaranteed a starting place in the championship

[Ian Royal]

At least you have a history of being positive.

[RoyalBlue]

At least you have a history of being positive.

Yes I have been pessimistic at times but at others, if you took the trouble to look, I have equally been positive. To me that suggests balance and realism. In contrast, someone who keeps referring to the first season we were in the PL as being sufficient proof that we can always get away with the mimumum levels of investment and primarily rely on the squad that took us up, strikes me as being about as realistic as someone expecting to win the lottery twice. Added to that, do people really think that the squad that brought us up this time has as much quality, let alone as much quality in depth, as the previous championship winners. Furthermore, I would suggest the PL is stronger than last time around.

And as Snowball says, commenting either way on threads like this has nothing to do with showing support. But then some are too dumb to recognise that. When it comes to games, I attend them and give total, very vocal, support throughout. I will then come home and comment on how I feel the team have played - that is expressing an opinion and has f*ck all to do with support.

[Royal Ginger]

Southampton are showing everyone how a gutsy promoted team can do. 2-1 up against United as i type this.

[Royal Ginger]

ooh, that's gotta hurt.

[Arnie_Pie]

So sad (and misguided) that BM feels that he has to stay loyal to the players that took us up, even if some of them are nowhere near PL standard.
I really fear for us this season and it could be all over before the next window opens.

He has replaced nearly half of the first team.

[WeAreReadingFc]

southampton liverpool QPR bottom 3 at moment

[Stuboo]

West Ham were picking up injuries in yesterday's game but it made little difference as they were able to replace one real class player with another on each occasion.

We have signed a few class players (too few IMO and that of many others) and when they get injured or suspended all we can bring on is 'triers' and 'real team players'.

That's all we did when we got promoted last time and finished 8th. Our squad players in Hunt, Gunnarsson, Long, Seol playing upfront. Last year, Tabb, Cummings, Mills, HRK, Hunt, ALF, Church. Our squad players probably aren't good enough to be starters, but we've already seen time and again that they can step up for at least short periods without a significant dip in quality.

With the likes of Shorey, Mariappa, Taylor, McCarthy, Cummings, Karacan, Tabb, HRK, McCleary / Kebe, Roberts, Hunt & Church. I see no reason that this won't happen again. If we need to play more than a couple of them for 20+ we may well struggle, but as back up they'll do. McDermott obviously believes that and he's got a feck load more credit in the bank than you.

So until they show they aren't actually good enough, why not try something novel and committ a bit of support for a change.

Agree with all of that, but I would perhaps swap your word "support" for positivity.

There are many positive things to celebrate about this current team, but some seem intent on searching for the negatives.

Positives:

Spent wisely (not going to end up in financial ruin)
Got strong additions to the squad (Pog, Guthrie, etc)
We have a great team mentality
A great manager, who makes sensible decisions and motivates the players
We finished above Southampton and West ham in the Championship (even though, I agree that at least on paper West Ham had a stronger squad)
We are greater than the sum of our parts
Would have got something out of the Chelsea game had it not been for a dodgy offside decision
Etc

[Snowball]

Agree with all of that, but I would perhaps swap your word "support" for positivity.

We can be realistic "between games" and scream and shout and be optimistic IN games.

I don't see how "positivity" overcomes common-sense.





Positives:

Spent wisely (not going to end up in financial ruin)

I've already said that.

Got strong additions to the squad (Pog, Guthrie, etc)

I've already said that. (But will it be enough?)

We have a great team mentality

So far so good, but that could evaporate if we have a whole season in the bottom three.

Don't know that it WILL, but should we struggle, will the team-spirit remain?

A great manager, who makes sensible decisions and motivates the players

A very good (not yet known to be great) manager, who will face unknown challenges at this level.

We finished above Southampton and West ham in the Championship (even though, I agree that at least on paper West Ham had a stronger squad)

Despite saying we would stats-wise, I truly didn't think we were better than either
even when we won the league. Still don't.

I think we nicked it.

We are greater than the sum of our parts

Well that's the team-ethic under another name. true, but will be tested if we struggle

Would have got something out of the Chelsea game had it not been for a dodgy offside decision
Etc

Maybe, but it's strange how these top sides nearly always get the win, and remember for twenty minutes we were chasing shadows