Centre midfield

[melonhead]

Our most successful midfield pairing was Sidwell and Harper and I don't see why Legs and Karacan should be much different (just a bit inferior).

Because their scoring record, and likelihood of scoring more than 2 or 3 goals a season each is poor.

Sidwell: /, 2, 9, 5, 10,4, /, /
Harper: 1, 2, 2, 3, 7, 3, 6, 1
Jem : 2, 0, 3, 1
Legs: /, /, 2, 1

Sidwell certainly posed a significant threat through the middle that had to be countered and gave us another dimension. Freeing up space and opportunity for the wingers who were obviously our primary threat.

neither were particularly creative though

[PistolPete]

It's a fair point Ian, but Sidwell has since scored 3 in 45 for Villa and 2 in 20 for Fulham. (1 in 13)

Leigertwood scored 13 in 131 for QPR (1 in 10) so its as much about the team they play with and the role they play as whether they are capable of scoring.

I dont think the two are that different, although Sidwell was the best of the four by a distance - although perhaps Chelsea are looking at Mikele?

[Terminal Boardom]

When Howard returns why not give him a run of games, he's been doing alright for Millwall

Funnily enough, I was at The Den this lunchtime. Howard was shit. Supposed to play left side of midfield and offered feck all going forward. Any time he tried to pass forward it was easily cut out. The rest of the time he either passed sideways or backwards. Anyone thinking that Howard is the answer is hopelessly deluded.

[leww_rfc]

Following on from another post on another thread, Jake Taylor's goal yesterday was really superb

[Hoop Blah]

Our most successful midfield pairing was Sidwell and Harper and I don't see why Legs and Karacan should be much different (just a bit inferior).

Because their scoring record, and likelihood of scoring more than 2 or 3 goals a season each is poor.

Sidwell: /, 2, 9, 5, 10,4, /, /
Harper: 1, 2, 2, 3, 7, 3, 6, 1
Jem : 2, 0, 3, 1
Legs: /, /, 2, 1

Sidwell certainly posed a significant threat through the middle that had to be countered and gave us another dimension. Freeing up space and opportunity for the wingers who were obviously our primary threat.

neither were particularly creative though

Sidwell was creative in his running and the space he created by being the threat he was. Although his passing wasn't a great strength he was still capable of picking the right pass at the right time.

As for Harper, he was very creative, not necessarily at the end of a move or on the edge of the opposition box but his ability to keep the ball and dictate play is exactly the kind of thing that we're missing now but lots of people failed to valid at the time.

I think it's looking more like we'll need to add another body in the middle of the park, someone with more guile and a bit of a goal threat as the wingers aren't doing it and aren't really getting the right ball or space to be effective. Add in the lack of quality up front and I think the obvious answer is another midfielder. The problem we have is that McDermott has put this squad together to play as we are now but his inability to get the right mix or quality upfront (or out wide) leaves is a bit too toothless.

Do we have the midfielder to supplement Karacan and Leigertwood? Not at the moment. It would be a big step up for Taylor or D'Ath and their isn't anyone else is there as Tabb is just another out of the same mould.

[specialjon]

The thing that I've liked about McD as a manager is that when we have had a problem he has solved it by changing the way we play or bringing new players. So I can't see why it'd be any different this time.

[TBM]

hardly the point. you dont have to lump it into the channels to play 433

loads of times we played out of defence yesterday

Why we're at it, why not play exactly like Barcelona......

[SCIAG]

LOL but we're not Chelsea or Arsenal.......until you tell our centre halfs to stop lumping it in to the channels then we need someone who will run it, in that formation - the fact is when Doyle and Long played it, they did it well - Alfie is a box player.

Have you seen Le Fondre play? He's constantly moving into channels, his link up play is as good as any striker we've had since Kitson left.

Doyle wasn't very good as a lone striker, generally Lita played there ahead of Doyle.

[Hoop Blah]

The thing that I've liked about McD as a manager is that when we have had a problem he has solved it by changing the way we play or bringing new players. So I can't see why it'd be any different this time.

Interesting point of view.

He's done pretty well doing that defensively, but going forward I don't think he's had any real success as yet has he?

I actually think its time we delved into the loan market. Over the last few years the Championship has seen a few examples of young Premiership kids going out on loan and adding goals to sides (Lansbury, Cleverly, Larsson etc) and perhaps it's something we need to do. Someone like McEachran or the next big thing waiting to come out of the big boys academies might just have that swagger and spark that we need.

[SCIAG]

The thing that I've liked about McD as a manager is that when we have had a problem he has solved it by changing the way we play or bringing new players. So I can't see why it'd be any different this time.

Interesting point of view.

He's done pretty well doing that defensively, but going forward I don't think he's had any real success as yet has he?

I actually think its time we delved into the loan market. Over the last few years the Championship has seen a few examples of young Premiership kids going out on loan and adding goals to sides (Lansbury, Cleverly, Larsson etc) and perhaps it's something we need to do. Someone like McEachran or the next big thing waiting to come out of the big boys academies might just have that swagger and spark that we need.

Villas-Boas got rather miffed when Rodgers talked about wanting McEachran on loan from January, saying he wanted him to prove he could break into the first team. In any case, I think Brendan has first dibs.

I wish we'd got Shelvey.

[Hoop Blah]

Perfect? How many times have you actually seen him play?

[paultheroyal]

Federici

Cummings. Gorks. Pearce. Harte.



Kebe. Leigertwood. Karacan. Mills.


Mcanuff.


Le Fondre.

[The Real Sandhurst Royal]

Sciag wrote: Have you seen Le Fondre play? He's constantly moving into channels, his link up play is as good as any striker we've had since Kitson left.

Le Fondre was static for most of the game Saturday he did not know where to go.

10 minutes left, 2-1 down there was open space for him to run into to take a pass and he stood still.

[Cypry]

Why all the banging on about Howard? He ain't coming back, when are people going to realise that?

We played Leigertwood and Karacan right through our winning run last year, it wasn't a problem then, so what's different?
It seems to me that there are two key issues;

Kebe and McAnuff aren't firing on the wings, particularly the former. Jobi has always been compromised to an extent, having to play on the left which isn't helpful in terms of getting to he byline and getting crosses in. To be honest, I think the best thing that could happen is for Kebe to go in the transfer window so that Brian has to completely reassess his options on the wing. Perhaps Jobi on his preferred right, with HRK on the left, or why not blood Obita on his natural left wing? Yes he's young but he seems so highly rated it must be worth a punt?

Longs departure - this is what we're really missing, not so much his finishing, I think ALF has already shown that given a chance he can finish. I think the biggest issue is we're missing his strength, ability to win and hold up a ball, and his pace. All of our current front men lack real pace, ALF is probably quickest but he's not lightning quick by any stretch of the imagination. Hunt can win balls in the air, but it tends to be all flicks to ALF which more often than not don't come off, and with ALF not being super fast he gets beaten by the defence every time. Potentially Manset could fit the holding role, he certainly has the strength, but his fitness levels concern me, and all too often his first touch is rubbish.

Part of the problem to me is that McD is trying to play the same system, built around Longs strength and pace, without a good enough replacement for Long himself.

It strikes me we have one of two options, either try to find a holding player who has the ability to win the ball, and hold it or knock it for ALF, or look to change the system completely, and look to put someone like Taylor in a 4-5-1 setup. Problem is, for the latter you still ideally need a striker who can hold the ball up, and I doubt that ALF can fill this role.

Starting to think that we might end up seeing this as a transition season, try to guarantee safety as early as possible, then get the likes of Taylor and Obita some game time in March, April and May to see if they're ready for next year....

[Wimb]

Why all the banging on about Howard? He ain't coming back, when are people going to realise that?

We played Leigertwood and Karacan right through our winning run last year, it wasn't a problem then, so what's different?
It seems to me that there are two key issues;

Kebe and McAnuff aren't firing on the wings, particularly the former. Jobi has always been compromised to an extent, having to play on the left which isn't helpful in terms of getting to he byline and getting crosses in. To be honest, I think the best thing that could happen is for Kebe to go in the transfer window so that Brian has to completely reassess his options on the wing. Perhaps Jobi on his preferred right, with HRK on the left, or why not blood Obita on his natural left wing? Yes he's young but he seems so highly rated it must be worth a punt?

Longs departure - this is what we're really missing, not so much his finishing, I think ALF has already shown that given a chance he can finish. I think the biggest issue is we're missing his strength, ability to win and hold up a ball, and his pace. All of our current front men lack real pace, ALF is probably quickest but he's not lightning quick by any stretch of the imagination. Hunt can win balls in the air, but it tends to be all flicks to ALF which more often than not don't come off, and with ALF not being super fast he gets beaten by the defence every time. Potentially Manset could fit the holding role, he certainly has the strength, but his fitness levels concern me, and all too often his first touch is rubbish.

Part of the problem to me is that McD is trying to play the same system, built around Longs strength and pace, without a good enough replacement for Long himself.

It strikes me we have one of two options, either try to find a holding player who has the ability to win the ball, and hold it or knock it for ALF, or look to change the system completely, and look to put someone like Taylor in a 4-5-1 setup. Problem is, for the latter you still ideally need a striker who can hold the ball up, and I doubt that ALF can fill this role.

Starting to think that we might end up seeing this as a transition season, try to guarantee safety as early as possible, then get the likes of Taylor and Obita some game time in March, April and May to see if they're ready for next year....

Very much agreed Cypry.

You can play two of Karacan/Leigertwood and Tabb easily if you've got a Long up front and a firing pair of wingers because the two holding guys will win the balls and just feed them out wide or put it into an area for Long to chase down and create something out of nothing. The problem is, as you say, that Kebe and McAnuff are not the players they've been in the last couple of years and Long is gone with no like for like replacement.

it took Brian until November last year to realise he needed Ledge in to change the system in a post-Gylfi world and it's got to be obvious to him now that he needs somebody to provide a viable plan B.

I think the formation/personel we've got at the moment will be safe from relegation and could well develop into a team that's capable of playing in this formation in the top six, but not quite now.

[Handsome Man]

Centre Midfiled looks quite strong at the moment, but they have nobody to pass to. We just need one of our strikers to hit something like form, or to buy one. To do the latter is quite hard and quite expensive and with no guarantee of success.

[gazzer, loyal royal]

the way we play, getting the ball out wide and getting crosses in, we need a breaking midfielder. The amount of times you see a cross come in and Ledge and Jem are flat on the edge of the centre circle. The one time on sat we had a breaker it generated a good chance. We're fine with them defensively, but going forward neither of them busts a gut to get forward.

[RobRoyal]

we have no plan B. Howard

A single player can't really constitute an entire "plan."

[Barry the bird boggler]

Agreed. We have no plan B all our game is wingers attacking but sadly at the moment our wingers are on the side of pretty useless as they totally fail to consistently get behind the defenders and pull the ball back making chances for our strikers ever more difficult to come by.

In this instance we need to be able to create more through midfield and, tbh, we just don't have that experience on our books (esp. now as the Duck looks like he's gone).

Overall I think that we have many good players but we just can't make a balanced team out of them. Therefore there needs to be some sacrifices made in order that we can become more than just an erratic team wobbling up and down the second division.

[Turns8]

Get Harps back on loan from Hull...

Has the energy to be box to box and has the composure to put his foot on the ball and pass to a teammate rather than just lump it...ball retention is the key in this division...who cares if we pass the ball sideways or backwards...it's about keeping hold of it and working an opening...currently all we do is lump it somewhere!! and then hope that the 2 strikers have enough energy to chase it down for 90mins aswell as being marked by some 6ft + CB...

It would be a different story if Kebe was even remotely interested for more than about 5mins per game...but currently the opposition can see straightaway that the 'threat' that once was Kebe is no more...and our only other outlet is Jobi...who has a decent workrate, but doesn't have the outright pace to beat his man...