Bottom 3

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Agreed, when you look at it. it's scary

I thought 46 was "just about enough"

but 47 is often not enough
50 has not always been enough

Recent Times

42 Crewe
42 Southend
46 Norwich
46 Wednesday
49 Crewe
50 Gillingham
51 Walsall
52 Leicester


So 53 for "absolute safety", or 30 points in 21 games, say W8 D6 L7

Our best chance has to be beating the rubbish teams already in the bottom 6-7 like (cough) Plymouth

Sorry guys 53 pts not always enough - we were relegated with this amount in 1983

[Sir Rodger Doyle]

focher i'm gobsmacked you believe this squad is good enough to challenge for promotion! Who out of our striker's is any decent? Thor was the only one who looked good enough at the wkend. Elsewhere our senior pros are woeful. It's only Gylfi, Jem. Mills and MacEnough who I think are genuinely good players

Rasiak, Church, Long, Hunt (ok not playing) Thorvaldssson are all full internationals. They are for a reason.

ON PAPER this team should be there or there abouts, i don't understand how this can be at all questioned

Murty, Sonko, Sidwell, Harper, Little, Lita, Doyle, Kitson, Convey, Hunt, Hahneman and Shorey. On paper this team should be there, or there about.

[prostak]

Rasiak, Church, Long, Hunt (ok not playing) Thorvaldssson are all full internationals. They are for a reason.

Not to denigrate your argument otherwise, and to repeat something I pointed out before he joined, but Rasiak hasn't been a full international since 2007. And that's for a reason. New Poland coach Smuda is very unlikely to pick him again, believing "he's already had his five minutes" (Polish site), and is building for 2012. I think the general hope is that Poland's aim of not being embarrassed at the most significant sporting event ever held in the country won't be reliant on a striker in his mid-30s who has long suffered an ironic nickname which roughly translates as 'Woodinho'.

[Pseud O'Nym]

Rasiak, Church, Long, Hunt (ok not playing) Thorvaldssson are all full internationals. They are for a reason.

Careful now, don't forget Long is also a full international!

[Terminal Boardom]

Agreed, when you look at it. it's scary

I thought 46 was "just about enough"

but 47 is often not enough
50 has not always been enough

Recent Times

42 Crewe
42 Southend
46 Norwich
46 Wednesday
49 Crewe
50 Gillingham
51 Walsall
52 Leicester


So 53 for "absolute safety", or 30 points in 21 games, say W8 D6 L7

Our best chance has to be beating the rubbish teams already in the bottom 6-7 like (cough) Plymouth

Sorry guys 53 pts not always enough - we were relegated with this amount in 1983

What would be more relevant would be the number of points achieved by the team finishing 4th from bottom. That will show how many points are more realistically needed.

[Focher]

focher i'm gobsmacked you believe this squad is good enough to challenge for promotion! Who out of our striker's is any decent? Thor was the only one who looked good enough at the wkend. Elsewhere our senior pros are woeful. It's only Gylfi, Jem. Mills and MacEnough who I think are genuinely good players

Rasiak, Church, Long, Hunt (ok not playing) Thorvaldssson are all full internationals. They are for a reason.

ON PAPER this team should be there or there abouts, i don't understand how this can be at all questioned

Murty, Sonko, Sidwell, Harper, Little, Lita, Doyle, Kitson, Convey, Hunt, Hahneman and Shorey. On paper this team should be there, or there about.

You have just completely backed up the point im trying to make, on paper, before the championship winning season, that team has fewer internationals and fewer players who were considered 'great' on paper. Something has gone seriously wrong with the management this season, not Madejski, but the management. The accolades achieved by the team you've just listed shows exactly what good management can do.

[SteveRoyal]

Rasiak, Church, Long, Hunt (ok not playing) Thorvaldssson are all full internationals. They are for a reason.

Careful now, don't forget Long is also a full international!

And has, at times, shown why he's a full international. He needs to show that consistently and from the off. Not once every blue moon and as a sub.

[Jeffers217]

focher i'm gobsmacked you believe this squad is good enough to challenge for promotion! Who out of our striker's is any decent? Thor was the only one who looked good enough at the wkend. Elsewhere our senior pros are woeful. It's only Gylfi, Jem. Mills and MacEnough who I think are genuinely good players

Rasiak, Church, Long, Hunt (ok not playing) Thorvaldssson are all full internationals. They are for a reason.

ON PAPER this team should be there or there abouts, i don't understand how this can be at all questioned

[/quote]

You're telling me you rate Shane Long? An FA cup goal does not make him a hero in my eyes- the lad is useless. Church how many goals has he scored? Not exactly flattering is it! Rasiak well the less said the better- he's distinctly average but it was actually quite refreshing to see a striker hold up the ball on sat (Thorvaldsson). And the lad can head it unlike Rasiak.

[Focher]

You're telling me you rate Shane Long? An FA cup goal does not make him a hero in my eyes- the lad is useless. Church how many goals has he scored? Not exactly flattering is it! Rasiak well the less said the better- he's distinctly average but it was actually quite refreshing to see a striker hold up the ball on sat (Thorvaldsson). And the lad can head it unlike Rasiak.

Jeffers you don't seem to be reading my posts properly. I have not actually said i rate any of these forwards, im saying that ON PAPER (for the 3rd time ) all these strikers are or have been full intermnationals, so therefore in the championship should be good enough, comfortably.

Please read that slowly, or even 2/3 times, before replying.

[Hoop Blah]

focher i'm gobsmacked you believe this squad is good enough to challenge for promotion! Who out of our striker's is any decent? Thor was the only one who looked good enough at the wkend. Elsewhere our senior pros are woeful. It's only Gylfi, Jem. Mills and MacEnough who I think are genuinely good players

Rasiak, Church, Long, Hunt (ok not playing) Thorvaldssson are all full internationals. They are for a reason.

ON PAPER this team should be there or there abouts, i don't understand how this can be at all questioned

Your kind of overlooking the teams they play for, the number of caps they have, and the times at which they got them.

Rasiak isn't a current international becuase he's past his best...he is still our best goalscorer though
Church has a couple of caps for Wales, and against some poor sides when they were missing a few players if I remember rightly
Long and Hunt have a handful of caps between them, at a time when Eire are lacking upfront too.

That these players are internationals is a fluke of their birth and a lack of real quality available to their countries.

[Hoop Blah]

Yep - our wage bill is 10th highest in the CCC, so statistically there's a 92% chance we'll end up 10th in the CCC.

As we're clearly not there, either the players are being paid more than they're worth, or something else is happening to stop them reach that potential.

Where do you get the fact that we have the 10th highest wage bill Dirk?

[Terminal Boardom]

Yep - our wage bill is 10th highest in the CCC, so statistically there's a 92% chance we'll end up 10th in the CCC.

As we're clearly not there, either the players are being paid more than they're worth, or something else is happening to stop them reach that potential.

Where do you get the fact that we have the 10th highest wage bill Dirk?

I would assume that the likes of Peterborough, Scunny, Blackpool and Barnsley would be below us. Add to this Argyle and possibly Swansea. Watford will be quite low as they have gone through a SJM-esque bit of cloth cutting themselves. With the exception of watford, most of those named have only recently got to this level. That suggests that there are still 7 clubs who pay less.

Probably easier to suggest who would pay more:
WBA
Skunks
M'bro
Palace - because they have London to contend with
QPR
Florists
Sheff U
Derby possibly?
And one other.

My basis is on who has come down from the prem in recent years, demographics and levels of support. Could be complete tosh though and probably is.

[Dirk Gently]

Yep - our wage bill is 10th highest in the CCC, so statistically there's a 92% chance we'll end up 10th in the CCC.

As we're clearly not there, either the players are being paid more than they're worth, or something else is happening to stop them reach that potential.

Where do you get the fact that we have the 10th highest wage bill Dirk?

Was told it by someone ITK, although what they actually said was that our wage bill is "in the top 10 in the CCC".

I think there are a clutch of high-payers (Newcastle, Boro, WBA, Sheff Utd, Cardiff, Leicester, Forest) then a middle-paying group, of which we're in the top two or three.

[Dirk Gently]

Yep - our wage bill is 10th highest in the CCC, so statistically there's a 92% chance we'll end up 10th in the CCC.

As we're clearly not there, either the players are being paid more than they're worth, or something else is happening to stop them reach that potential.

Where do you get the fact that we have the 10th highest wage bill Dirk?

I would assume that the likes of Peterborough, Scunny, Blackpool and Barnsley would be below us. Add to this Argyle and possibly Swansea. Watford will be quite low as they have gone through a SJM-esque bit of cloth cutting themselves. With the exception of watford, most of those named have only recently got to this level. That suggests that there are still 7 clubs who pay less.

Probably easier to suggest who would pay more:
WBA
Skunks
M'bro
Palace - because they have London to contend with
QPR
Florists
Sheff U
Derby possibly?
And one other.

My basis is on who has come down from the prem in recent years, demographics and levels of support. Could be complete tosh though and probably is.

Cardiff and Leicester both pay more than us - both pay unfeasibly high amounts. Leicester in particular is completely unsustainable, but this is an all-or-nothing season for Cardiff. Fail to go up and they'll have a fire sale of their own - that's if they survive the winding-up order due in a couple of weeks.

[Hoop Blah]

Agree on those last posts above, we'll be in that middle band, where I guess there won't be much of a difference to be honest.

10th just sounded like too accurate a statement to be making to be true.

[Dirk Gently]

Agree on those last posts above, we'll be in that middle band, where I guess there won't be much of a difference to be honest.

10th just sounded like too accurate a statement to be making to be true.

Indeed - hence I clarified it be "in the top ten" to be a bit more accurate.

[Sarah Star]

Agree on those last posts above, we'll be in that middle band, where I guess there won't be much of a difference to be honest.

10th just sounded like too accurate a statement to be making to be true.

I heard Paul Merson describe us as 'an average, average Championship side' so I guess this just about proves it.

[Thaumagurist*]

Agree on those last posts above, we'll be in that middle band, where I guess there won't be much of a difference to be honest.

10th just sounded like too accurate a statement to be making to be true.

I heard Paul Merson describe us as 'an average, average Championship side' so I guess this just about proves it.

I wouldn't trust anything that guy says.

[Blue Hooped Moose]

Agree on those last posts above, we'll be in that middle band, where I guess there won't be much of a difference to be honest.

10th just sounded like too accurate a statement to be making to be true.

I heard Paul Merson describe us as 'an average, average Championship side' so I guess this just about proves it.

I wouldn't trust anything that guy says.

Me neither... but then again Kamara has us down as for finishing 19th at the beginning of the season. I thought "wtf" but it looks (hopefully!) that he may be right...

[RoyalBlue]

Yep - our wage bill is 10th highest in the CCC, so statistically there's a 92% chance we'll end up 10th in the CCC.

As we're clearly not there, either the players are being paid more than they're worth, or something else is happening to stop them reach that potential.

Where do you get the fact that we have the 10th highest wage bill Dirk?

Was told it by someone ITK, although what they actually said was that our wage bill is "in the top 10 in the CCC".

I think there are a clutch of high-payers (Newcastle, Boro, WBA, Sheff Utd, Cardiff, Leicester, Forest) then a middle-paying group, of which we're in the top two or three.

Unless all the clubs are truthfully declaring their wage bills to some independent body like the FA, I'm not sure how ITK someone could be with regards to what all the other clubs in the Championship pay. Also, given some of the other loose expressions used - '60% down' anyone? - I think there might be a margin for error as to what constitutes the wage bill!