THE INQUEST

[Crowthorne Royal]

Some excellent responses to this post IMO. The Indy article absolutely sums up the way I feel. A fantastic opportunity, wasted.

I listened to Murts on BBC Berks this morning and whilst I sympathised with his outlook (almost in tears for most of it) I still felt the whole thing was completely avoidable.

We made so many mistakes this year and yet still only wnet down on goal difference. Tha shows you a lot of the other clubs also made big mistakes, but when it really mattered Bolton & Fulham in particular combined mental strength with limited ability to just cross the line. Just above them Sunderland bought big and as much as I despise Roy Keane (mainly due to admitting he went out to end another players career) his positive approach paid off.

At home, where we are normally so good....what happened ? Against Fulham and Bolton we were like rabbits in the headlights. Coppell not buying anyone who's survived in The Prem before was costly. We panicked and tried to out think, out tinker, but were unfortunately outplayed by everyone except the worst side in Prem history.

Murts said that us fans didn't understand that players didn't want to come to Reading. I'm sorry but I know we are a 'small team' but we are building a heritage here to become bigger. Staying in The Prem for a 3rd season I think would ironically have brought more talent in. As it is we will now have to rebuild around a core as many others have said. I wouldn't be too enthused by Hammond/Coppell or Madejski if I were considering joining a club. These boys have to work on their images and remember that football is passionate and so are many, many players.......especially if you're paying them what they're worth in the market in which they operate.

Bring on the youngsters that we have 'paid for' through The Academy. What's it acheiving if no-one ever plays in the 1st team ?

We can come back, but I for one would like to hear far more realism than these constant 'positives' even when we've played abysmally. I would like to see Coppell and Madejski stay. For their faults, of which there have been many this year, there are still few managers and chairmen as respected as these 2.

Disgruntled, sad, disappointed. But come August 9th I will be there looking forward to the next ride on the RFC rollercoaster, safe in the knowledge that we're never relegated in a year ending in 9 !

[Stranded]

more than likely be one of the favourites to bounce back and be one of the more attractive clubs to join in the CCC.

Apart from Wolves, Birmingham, Derby, Southampton, Notts Forest, Leeds (Most likely), Charlton, Cardiff, Ipswich, Norwich, Sheff Utd, QPR (loads of money), Preston.

In fact let list those that are less attractive :

Blackpool, Barnsley, Burnley (Maybe), Watford (But money may be factor), Plymouth.

Even Murts this morning said that its just not attractive to come to Reading. Be honest if you were a player would you choose Wolves or Reading. Face facts we are down there with Barnsley and Blackpool not along side Wolves, Ipswich, Norwich, leeds, Forest

I'd argue that at least half the clubs you've listed as more attractive propositions are not.

- Brum are in turmoil, see yesterday with the chairmen almost resigning following the rioting by fans.
- Derby, historically yes but after the season they've just had they'll struggle
- Ipswich and Norwich are tucked away in the country and have always struggled to attract players
- Cardiff will be attractive if they win on Saturday but they have no money now and a poor stadium
- Soton, currently in turmoil

I agree that traditionally we are not as attractive but we have the added aspect of having only narrowly being relegated.. A lot of players may well see us as a decent bet to get back in to the Prem compared to the vast majority of the ones you listed.

[Hoop Blah]

'greed Stranded.

In the Championship we'll be a relatively big fish for a season or two.

Murty's comments were specifically aimed at the problem of getting in players who would've improved our side and were proven Premiership players though. I think he's a right to an extent but I also think we'd have had no problem attracting the likes of Taylor, O'Neil, Davis (Sean or Steven for that matter), Routledge etc etc had we decided that they'd have been worthwhile.

[howser]

Where as I can understand that certain players, Berbatov, Drogba, Ronaldo etc......dont want to come to "little old" Reading we all know what a bunch of merceney's that footallers have become, and apart from the ones who willingly go and play for the team they supported as a kid for peanuts, otherwise known as the mentaly insane, they will always go where the wages are best for them and that is where we have the crux of the problem ! I get confused that the likes of Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan and several other clubs in the premiership manage to attract and pay players, what might seem to be obscene, an acceptable wage for a premiership player and most of these clubs do it with smaller gates than we attract and with bigger squads, thus we return to the season long burning question, "where has all the money gone"

[Arch]

"where has all the money gone"

The accounts are all public. Last season's profit almost exactly covered the previous season's loss. This season's profit will be known later in the year, as will what's been done with it, but as this season's wage bill was significantly higher (several new contracts for players who could have commanded good money elswhere) it's unlikely to be any more than the 6 million from last year.

[kieran]

I get confused that the likes of Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan and several other clubs in the premiership manage to attract and pay players, what might seem to be obscene, an acceptable wage for a premiership player and most of these clubs do it with smaller gates than we attract and with bigger squads, thus we return to the season long burning question, "where has all the money gone"

I dont know how Wigan do it.

As for the likes of Bolton,Blackburn,Pompey, West Ham they are much bigger clubs than us. They have won major honors. They have been in the top flight for the majority of their existence. When you go to these clubs you know you are at a football club with a rich heritage and the players know that. These clubs alone boast achievements:
Prem Winners,
Fa cup winners,
Champions of England (2 of them in consecutive seasons),
Many Engalnd International both past and present
Mark Hughes, Nat Lofthouse, Harry Redknapp, George Best, Sam Allardyce, Merson, Okocha, Kenny Dalgliesh, Alan Shearer, David James, Sol Campbell,

This is the difference and in almost every instance these clubs will be chosen above Reading, unless we are offering 10 times what these clubs are. Take Matt Taylor - he went Bolton cos he thought they prob had more chance of staying up - he was right. Maybe we will get where these clubs are in 10-15 years, but we will never have the heritage. Its the difference between visiting Stone Henge or the millenium dome - I know which I would rather do.

[Uke]

I dont know how Wigan do it.

Its a location thing, close to two teams with predominantly red kits...

[Cookie]

Who is to blame for getting us into the Premier league in great style and then achieving a 8th placed finish while playing some brilliant football along the way?

Hob Nob blame culture.

[papereyes]

Wigan - rich owner.

They've also completely replaced the side that reached upper-midtable in their first season (except for Paul Scharner).

[Andy In Oz]

I believe that how you sell something to people is as much as what you sell, I honestly think we should have looked for a 'Sheringham' in January, kept faith in the players as we did and not looked to spend spend spend on lots of new siginings out of panic or risk upsetting the regulars but sell the prospect of a "seasoned old head to help keep a great squad up". (even if the reality was/is different).
All I hope is that this approach wasn't taken in the form of the "motivational video from Vinny"

[Hoop Blah]

I get confused that the likes of Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan and several other clubs in the premiership manage to attract and pay players, what might seem to be obscene, an acceptable wage for a premiership player and most of these clubs do it with smaller gates than we attract and with bigger squads, thus we return to the season long burning question, "where has all the money gone"

I dont know how Wigan do it.

As for the likes of Bolton,Blackburn,Pompey, West Ham they are much bigger clubs than us. They have won major honors. They have been in the top flight for the majority of their existence. When you go to these clubs you know you are at a football club with a rich heritage and the players know that. These clubs alone boast achievements:
Prem Winners,
Fa cup winners,
Champions of England (2 of them in consecutive seasons),
Many Engalnd International both past and present
Mark Hughes, Nat Lofthouse, Harry Redknapp, George Best, Sam Allardyce, Merson, Okocha, Kenny Dalgliesh, Alan Shearer, David James, Sol Campbell,

This is the difference and in almost every instance these clubs will be chosen above Reading, unless we are offering 10 times what these clubs are. Take Matt Taylor - he went Bolton cos he thought they prob had more chance of staying up - he was right. Maybe we will get where these clubs are in 10-15 years, but we will never have the heritage. Its the difference between visiting Stone Henge or the millenium dome - I know which I would rather do.

I think the biggest difference is that they actually try!

We're told that the likes of Taylor and O'Neil were on a radar and probably interested in coming here. We just decided against making a move for that type of player. Yes if we're competing with some other clubs we're going to find it hard but we also had a lot going for us in terms of location, playing style, facilities etc, as long as we compete on a wages side of things with the likes of 'Boro, Wigan, Blackburn, Sunderland for those players that can fit in here and make a difference.

Blackburn are a very good model of how to manage a club successfully. Mark Hughes has worked minor miracles in the way he's put together their side. His net transfer spend is nothing compared to most clubs in the bottom half let alone the top half of the table but they consistenly produce a winning side. They obvioulsy pay half decent wages but their secret is finding good players who are willing to come there 'on the cheap' and Hughes moulds them into a very good team.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

McCarthy scored how many goals last season for Blackburn?

They went and signed Santa Cruz. He scored how many this season?

Our strikers had seasons half as good as McCarthy and we refused to strengthen.

I will never, ever understand what Coppell was thinking in the summer or January.

It's utter madness that we got relegated, cause we refused to buy players.

Is what makes it all so frustrating, that it was so easily avoidable. Especially when the guy was given a 2nd chance in January and the second that window opened all Coppell's talk of strengthening went away and all of a sudden we went back to the summer and Coppell claiming we don't need anyone, when clearly, like in the summer we did.

[papereyes]

When it was clear that Lita, especially, and Doyle were not scoring the goals, we should have looked to sign someone in to replace them, if only for 6 months.

When it was clear that Cisse, Fae and Gunnar were not replacing Sidwell adequately, then a ball winning 'tough' midfielder should have been brought in.

When it was clear that one of the 10 or 11 players that had been tried out at right midfield, then we should have looked for a right winger/right midfielder. Oh, wait, Jimmy Kebe!

Is what makes it all so frustrating, that it was so easily avoidable. Especially when the guy was given a 2nd chance in January and the second that window opened all Coppell's talk of strengthening went away and all of a sudden we went back to the summer and Coppell claiming we don't need anyone, when clearly, like in the summer we did.

That's my view as well. Even with, say, £6 million, we could have done something. Last January, when we were riding high, that was when we should have bought, for example, Matejovsky. One season to get adjusted and then he hits the ground running for the Sidwell-less season. McBride was available last season in January (signed an extension at Fulham Jan 2007). 18 months of him being our substitute option rather than Long? I would take that in a flash.

[Hoop Blah]

McCarthy scored how many goals last season for Blackburn?

They went and signed Santa Cruz. He scored how many this season?

And before that they're got the best out of Bellamy, pulled Gamst Pederson out of relatively nowhere, rescued Bentley from a downward spiral, plus picked up the likes of Warnock, Ooijer, Nelson, Samba and Neill for relative peanuts.

Their scouting and Hughes ability to manage players is pretty fantastic.

[jollyjiminy]

I'm really really busy at work... but I thought I'd waste time compiling a list of the people that need a drink of fizzy pop (providing that Reading are well managed and play the same sort of football next year):

Hahnemann - bad news for him. He can save from world-class strikers, and the Championship won't help his distribution skills: he'll still hoof goal kicks into touch whatever division he's playing in. Good news for us as he'll stick around and be consistent.

Federici - indifferent as a bench is a bench. The pies are good in Reading, he's probably happy.

Murty - good and bad news. We need his leadership qualities, but his presence in the side will squeeze out Rosenior, so we could get promoted back up without a top-class right back. Other old timers like Ingimarsson, Gunnar, Doobs etc will (like Murts) play well at Champ level so its all good news for this year, but we need some sort of decent succession plan this time round.

Shorey, Hunt - irrelevant as they won't be around and I think Shorey might have had more of a negative than positive influence ever since that West Ham game?? Doyle will go too (confidence shot - needs change of scene?), Rosenior too (championship bench will damage his prospects), plus Oster, DLC etc.

Sonko, Convey - seriously good news. They would never get back to their pre-injury best in the Premiership: this gives them a real opportunity to perform at the top level in 2009/10, should they chose to take it.

Long, Fae, Henry, Pearce, Karacan, Bozonic, possibly Cisse, Kebe, Golborne, and one of the younger strikers - massive opportunity to perform and secure a place that wasn't going to happen for them if Reading had stayed up. Pity Fae blew it.

Bikey - bad news, as he could cut it at top level and I wouldn't be surprised if he attracts interest. However, he may not get his head turned like Shorey did, as he seems to live for the moment, so it may be good news for the future.

Marek - great opportunity to deal with the physical side of the game. Somehow I can see him doing really well for himself, but if so he'd be strong contendor to go in the January window.

Lita - still young, much to learn: do him no harm at all. Not sure he'll stick around for it though.

Kitson - I reckon he'd play really well for most clubs, but he hasn't come out of this year looking as good as he should, which may mean he's still around. This is good news, as he'll be committed and score goals. I feel sorry for him as I don't think its his fault. Bit similar with Harper who's got nowt to gain from the Championship (unles he can get confident about taking the ball forward in the middle of the pitch, but I doubt it).
Little - this is very bad news for him, but having said that, he probably just wants to play football, so I guess its good news all round if he stays fit.

New blood - difficult to comment as its not been recruited yet. But lets be optimistic - good news.

I think on balance then, a lot more to gain than to lose, and an opportunity to regroup and, all being well, be a much stronger Premier League team in the future.

[Man Friday]

Have to say I disagre with a lot of this and don't understand several points. In particular, the poorness of USA's kicking is greatly exagerrated. He's a 'keeper for crying out loud. He kicks well, darn sight better than the Premier League Champions'' goalkeeper.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

When it was clear that Lita, especially, and Doyle were not scoring the goals, we should have looked to sign someone in to replace them, if only for 6 months. .

What would have been the point when the service to them was so terrible? Our problem was that we weren't creating chances, not that we were missing them.

I think it highlighted how bad Derby were that we whacked 4 past them with both wingers still playing badly.

[papereyes]

When it was clear that Lita, especially, and Doyle were not scoring the goals, we should have looked to sign someone in to replace them, if only for 6 months. .

What would have been the point when the service to them was so terrible? Our problem was that we weren't creating chances, not that we were missing them.

I think it highlighted how bad Derby were that we whacked 4 past them with both wingers still playing badly.

Lita scoring once all season is due to more than just terrible service. Likewise with some of Long's performances.

To subsequently let Lita go out on loan, after we could feasibly replace him, may have had something to do with the goal scoring issues we had this season.

[Royal Rother]

"where has all the money gone"

The accounts are all public. Last season's profit almost exactly covered the previous season's loss. This season's profit will be known later in the year, as will what's been done with it, but as this season's wage bill was significantly higher (several new contracts for players who could have commanded good money elswhere) it's unlikely to be any more than the 6 million from last year.

Now I am not 100% certain of this but as I understand it....

When players are signed the fee paid is no longer shown as a cost on the Profit and Loss account - it is shown as an Intangible Fixed Asset and amortised (written off as a cost) on the Profit and Loss account over the period of the contract.

So if we had signed a player for £10m on a 3 year contract it would have only appeared as a cost of £3.33m per year. (So if we had actually spent £10m on another player in 2006-7, (setting aside wages) we would still have made a profit of around £3m - but some people may well have stopped asking, "where has all the money gone", because they'd seen a whopping great signing on fee.

Now we, of course, weren't in that game (and never have been), but the likes of Bolton, Fulham, Sunderland, Birmingham, Derby et all were (and have been in the past). It is entirely possible that those clubs might only make a small loss, compared to our (presumably) small profit, and one might think, well considering they've spent £40m and we've spent bog all how can that be....

It is because the big signing on fees are sitting on their Balance Sheet waiting to be written off over the next 2-3 years. When that catches up with them it could spell real financial heartache for them.

We are not carrying the cost of such hugely expensive / over-priced assets on our Balance Sheet so do not have any dreadful "day of reckoning", when those assets have to be written off, around the corner.

So in essence (over simplification maybe) we will still have a healthy Balance Sheet and no massive signing on fees to be written off against the Profit and Loss account in the next couple of years that I think B'rum and Derby will have, because of the signings made.

Of course, the policy of spending high worked for some teams, and good luck to them, but such financial imprudency may not be sustainable once / if they get relegated in the next couple of seasons.

We all acknowledge now that we could / should have spent more but personally speaking I like the way Reading do it because it secures the long-term future.

I am confident that we are in a far stronger position to compete next year than B'rum and Derby.

Paul Jewell might be thinking about making massive changes, but when he sells off all the crap, the excess of the remaining Cost price (that is sitting unamortised in their Balance Sheet as of now) over Sales Price will immediately get written off as a cost in their Accounts - which is hardly likely to please their financial backers hugely, and one would suspect that Jewell is unlikely to have anything much available to spend, even after he's sold everyone he doesn't fancy.

We shall see.

Anyone who knows their Financial Accounting Standards inside out (and specifically those that apply to Football Clubs), please do correct me if you think I've got it wrong..

[FiNeRaIn]

more than likely be one of the favourites to bounce back and be one of the more attractive clubs to join in the CCC.

Apart from Wolves, Birmingham, Derby, Southampton, Notts Forest, Leeds (Most likely), Charlton, Cardiff, Ipswich, Norwich, Sheff Utd, QPR (loads of money), Preston.

In fact let list those that are less attractive :

Blackpool, Barnsley, Burnley (Maybe), Watford (But money may be factor), Plymouth.

Even Murts this morning said that its just not attractive to come to Reading. Be honest if you were a player would you choose Wolves or Reading. Face facts we are down there with Barnsley and Blackpool not along side Wolves, Ipswich, Norwich, leeds, Forest

I'd argue that at least half the clubs you've listed as more attractive propositions are not.

- Brum are in turmoil, see yesterday with the chairmen almost resigning following the rioting by fans.
- Derby, historically yes but after the season they've just had they'll struggle
- Ipswich and Norwich are tucked away in the country and have always struggled to attract players
- Cardiff will be attractive if they win on Saturday but they have no money now and a poor stadium
- Soton, currently in turmoil

I agree that traditionally we are not as attractive but we have the added aspect of having only narrowly being relegated.. A lot of players may well see us as a decent bet to get back in to the Prem compared to the vast majority of the ones you listed.

Get a grib man. Cardiff, ipswich and norwich are debatable I agree, however all the others most people would chose instead. Id probably go to brum, wolves and derby over reading. More passionate support, bigger clubs with history, bigger ambition and higher wage budgets. We really don't have anything going for reading other than a few prem seasons to get us on the map and a chance we MIGHT be challenging next year, thats it.