Are The Youngsters Being Frozen Out?

[Maneki Neko]

players who have zero affiliation to the club

nearly every player, ever

[Top Flight]

P!ssed off, judging by the Telegraph's latest revelations this week. It looks like you are right about all the corruption and how it drives transfer dealings.

I hope Stam is signing players in the best interests of the club and not to line his pockets. I'm sure he is. I trust Stam.

But, it does make you question Steve Clarkes dealings. How many central midfielders did we have last season? Clarke didn't seem to care. He brought players in and didn't even bother to use them. How useful was the signing of Fernandez last season? We really needed him didn't we, what with Tshibola, Williams, Norwood, Quinn, Barrett all in Central Midfield already.

What about Ola John. He wasn't even getting a game until Brian was in charge. Was Steve Clarke lining his pockets?

[CountryRoyal]

Just stop.

[Top Flight]

I was only asking the question.

[handbags_harris]

P!ssed off, judging by the Telegraph's latest revelations this week. It looks like you are right about all the corruption and how it drives transfer dealings.

I hope Stam is signing players in the best interests of the club and not to line his pockets. I'm sure he is. I trust Stam.

But, it does make you question Steve Clarkes dealings. How many central midfielders did we have last season? Clarke didn't seem to care. He brought players in and didn't even bother to use them. How useful was the signing of Fernandez last season? We really needed him didn't we, what with Tshibola, Williams, Norwood, Quinn, Barrett all in Central Midfield already.

What about Ola John. He wasn't even getting a game until Brian was in charge. Was Steve Clarke lining his pockets?

I wouldn't necessarily lay the blame for the loanees at Steve Clarke's feet given Matej Vydra was his only personal target...

[stealthpapes]

Ji Dong Won

rofl

[West Stand Man]

I have just had a beer with a guy who is friends with Antonio's agent. It seems that the deal taking him to WHU included a bonus payment to Big Sam if and when Antonio got an England cap. Is it a coincidence that this happened just as Sam took over as manager?

[Astos]

I have just had a beer with a guy who is friends with Antonio's agent. It seems that the deal taking him to WHU included a bonus payment to Big Sam if and when Antonio got an England cap. Is it a coincidence that this happened just as Sam took over as manager?

Well considering Allardyce didn't sign Antonio - Bilic did - this sounds like a load of bollocks

[Royal Rother]

[Nameless]

I have just had a beer with a guy who is friends with Antonio's agent. It seems that the deal taking him to WHU included a bonus payment to Big Sam if and when Antonio got an England cap. Is it a coincidence that this happened just as Sam took over as manager?

Well considering Allardyce didn't sign Antonio - Bilic did - this sounds like a load of bollocks

Has Antonio got a cap ?
You don't get a cap by just being in the squad, you need to get on the pitch.

[From Despair To Where?]

Back to the OP, just looking at the stats for our loanees in Leagues 1 and 2, ignoring Bond who isn't an academy graduate, only Rob Dickie is a regular starter.

Historically, the academy products who have gone on to make an impact in the first team have been regular starters when out on loan in the lower leagues. I'm thinking Pearce, Karacan, Gylfi, Hector, HRK, even Simon Church and you can add the likes of Tshibola, and James Henry to that list. There's also Federici and Antonio who were not academy graduates. Samuel was a regular starter in League 1 so there's some hope and expectation there.

Personally, I think a big priority in January is to get Cooper a 6 month loan in League 1. It will give him a chance to get some competitive games at a level where he can shine and also see if mentally he's up to the challenge of taking a step back to take 2 steps forward.


Maybe the current crop it youngsters isn't as close to the first team as we'd like to think.

[genome]

I have just had a beer with a guy who is friends with Antonio's agent. It seems that the deal taking him to WHU included a bonus payment to Big Sam if and when Antonio got an England cap. Is it a coincidence that this happened just as Sam took over as manager?

Well considering Allardyce didn't sign Antonio - Bilic did - this sounds like a load of bollocks

[Lower West]

Maybe the current crop it youngsters isn't as close to the first team as we'd like to think.

Tennai Watson has never been out on loan. Yet is already being bloodied. A bright prospect.

[Ian Royal]

A lot of it just comes down to luck. The right opening in the side at the right time with the right players around to help someone take their chance.

Watson's had the opening and taken it very well. Whether that will last with the typically ever present Gunter around who knows. Tish got his chance last season and took it with both hands until he got injured. Similar stories for Obita and Cooper, though I'd argue Cooper never really made the position his own.

On the other hand, Kuhl got a similar break under Adkins, and did well - but then returning players, team wide poor performance and a failure to kick on set him back. Samuel's never really got the break due to team shape and multiple serious injuries. Fosu's not had the right opportunities come up - we've been light in his position, but playing poorly and presumably not willing to expose ourselves with an untried youngster there. Hamer was here at a time of high competition and longstanding first choice keeper so had to move. Antonio found us promoted at exactly the wrong time for him - albeit he's not an academy product.

The stars have to align, and you have to be good enough. It's tough to break through.

[From Despair To Where?]

Maybe the current crop it youngsters isn't as close to the first team as we'd like to think.

Tennai Watson has never been out on loan. Yet is already being bloodied. A bright prospect.

There are exceptions and Watson, like Obita before him is our main cover in his position. There is also the argument that why loan them out when they are exceptional talents and ready now. From what I've seen of Watson, he is very steady and composed and getting in the squad on merit.

There could be a myriad of valid reasons why Fosu, for example, isn't starting regularly but generally, academy products who have become first team regulars either here or elsewhere at Championship level have been regular starters when loaned out.

[NewCorkSeth]

So what do we expect from Fosu and Stacey? Both are playing regularly enough correct? Do we see them breaking into the team next season or will they need another loan?

I don't think loaning out Cooper is a good idea. I would rather have him here for cover.

[Woodcote Royal]

I note that Stam said Samuels, who he believes will get a chance towards the end of the season has been shown a video of where he should have done better with the chances he had against Arsenal.

If the same has applied to 34 year old Kermogant for all his countless missed opportunities against Championship defences, it doesn't appear to have had the slightest effect on his chances of selection

Frankly, and as much as I support Stam and his general approach, it is this sort of managerial double standards that makes my blood boil.

All things being equal, and despite Kermagant's undoubted qualities elsewhere, his return in front of goal is nothing short of derisory and on that basis Dom should, at the very least, be getting some 10-15 minutes cameos yet is being ignored to the point of rendering his place on the bench utterly pointless.

He might get his chance and not live up to expectations but Yann isn't currently producing the goods and isn't likely to improve with age whereas Dom just might, given the chance..................................please stop insulting our intelligence, Japp

[NewCorkSeth]

I note that Stam said Samuels, who he believes will get a chance towards the end of the season has been shown a video of where he should have done better with the chances he had against Arsenal.

If the same has applied to 34 year old Kermogant for all his countless missed opportunities against Championship defences, it doesn't appear to have had the slightest effect on his chances of selection

Frankly, and as much as I support Stam and his general approach, it is this sort of managerial double standards that makes my blood boil.

All things being equal, and despite Kermagant's undoubted qualities elsewhere, his return in front of goal is nothing short of derisory and on that basis, Dom should, at the very least, be getting some 10-15 minutes cameos yet is being ignored to the point of rendering his place on the bench utterly pointless.

He might get his chance and not live up to expectations but Yann isn't currently producing the goods and isn't likely to improve with age whereas Dom just might, given the chance..................................please stop insulting our intelligence, Japp

Perhaps that's the point of the double standard as you put it? You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Perhaps he has hopes for Dom and that's why they are making an effort to highlight where he needs to improve? And until he improves on those areas in the training pitch he will continue to play the experienced player who is (from what I understand) playing rather well without reward.

[Hoop Blah]

A lot of it just comes down to luck. The right opening in the side at the right time with the right players around to help someone take their chance....

...The stars have to align, and you have to be good enough. It's tough to break through.

Agreed, there are a lot of things that have to go in a players favour, but ultimately they have to be good enough to demand a chance and to take it when it arises.

Some of our lads out on loan are still pretty inexperienced and young so there's still time for them to make it here but history does suggest they need to be involved and achieving a bit more at those lower levels if they're going to make it here (caveat that lots of players develop at different times of course).

[From Despair To Where?]

So what do we expect from Fosu and Stacey? Both are playing regularly enough correct? Do we see them breaking into the team next season or will they need another loan?

I don't think loaning out Cooper is a good idea. I would rather have him here for cover.

Fosu has started less than half the games at Colchester and is, more often than not, on the bench, likewise Tanner at Plymouth, although this is is 3rd spell on loan there so they obviously see something about him.

Cooper needs games to build confidence and experience, he won't get that as cover unless Moore or McShane get injured. I'd rather see him get a decent number of games under his belt and use Blackett as CB cover.